Job Discussion Forums

[Golightly]

OK, a sensitive topic, I know, but one that needs to be looked at. This issue is raising a considerable amount of steam in the Turkish community in the UK at the moment. What's your take on this? A tragic accident of war? Ethnic cleansing? Genocide? Or did the Armenians just decide to leave the east of Turkey?

[dmb]

What are you talking about?

[molly farquharson]

my understanding of it based on research i have read is that the russians stirred things up because they wanted to do a land grab (along with a bunch of other people at that time) and it got out of hand. the ottoman empire was falling apart and could not control it. thousands of people died on both sides. it seems to me that it is the armenians outside the region who are living on one-hundred-year-old hatred and need to move forward.

[sandyhoney2]

I agree with Molly. There is evidence that Russia was pushing Armenians to separate from the Ottoman Empire, which at the time was considered treason punishable by death. Seems to me that Turkey has taken the "an innocent man needs no lawyer" approach and has frankly not been protesting enough.

Genocide is a tough lable to stick on a country, with serious repercussions. Why go through the bother of those horrible relocations when the plan was to kill them all in the first place? And remember, it was the Ottoman Empire. not Turkey.

The whole hundred-year hatred thing drives me nuts. Then you get Atom Egoyan stirring things up with his version of events in Ararat. Turks have been the boogeymen for a long time. I'm sick of it, personnally.

[31]

[quote="sandyhoney2"]I agree with Molly. There is evidence that Russia was pushing Armenians to separate from the Ottoman Empire, which at the time was considered treason punishable by death.

True but did there have to be nearly 2 million deaths?

[TeachEnglish]

Hmmm.. were there 2 million deaths..or is that an exaggeration? The last thing I read stated that there were only about 1.5 million Armenians living in the area at the time.. and it would have been very difficult to kill 2 million.. I think the Turks and the Armenians should agree to allow an unbiased 3rd party or group to do some research and come up with the truth.. Yes that would mean they would have to give up their records and open up their archives and allow people to study the records.. if there are any..and do some research.. This old crap needs to be settled.. who really gives a rats Xss about this.. this is old news.. war is not fun.. people always get killed..

[molly farquharson]

the armenians abroad give a rat's ass, and they stir it up even more. Ever play the telephone game in class, where one sentence gets whispered around and by the time you get to the end it is completely different? iste... hardly anyone talks about how many turks were killed at the same time, which actually was about as many as the armenians.

genocide is defined as the methodical wiping out of a complete group of people, which is not what this was. it was war, pure and simple. is it genocidein iraq when the sunnis and shiites attack each other? no.

stupid. people are stupid and hateful, and ignorant people are stirred up to do hateful things.

[calsimsek]

I'm no expert but the word Genocide relates to an ethnic group, regradless of where they lived. All the evidence points to the population in areas such as Sivas, Erizincan and Erzurum being killed, yet there were sizable Armenian communites in the west in Izmir, Bursa and Istanbul. Balta, Hask�y and other Goldern Horn towns were key centers for Armenians. Yet there is no evidences of these people being moved or kill or expelled.

Why is it then that only the communites who lived near russia were killed. I don't know how many died, does it matter. Is a 1000 dead children less important than 1,000,000 dead children. What maters to me is the question [size=18]Was It Genocide: NO [/size]:

[whynotme]

i cant be objective about this Armenian so- called genocide , but the interesting thing is that why nobody talks about the killed Turks? and in the middle of the war where there were attacks from many sides and some people were killed ( 2 million is bullshit) because they were pushed armed by the Russians...and it happened in 1915, sorry but i dont want to pay the price .... and the ones who blame Turks arent more innocent and know the meaning of genocide better.

[justme]

The unbiased 3rd party investigation seems to be the best idea, but as everyone keeps politicizing the issue more and more, true objectivity becomes less likely. Even idiots like Bush are putting in their own 2 cents, which just makes the issue worse.

Like every problem, thr truth is likely somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes, with guilt on both sides.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see this one being talked about more in public. Turkey loses so much international credibility with this 'It never happened and we'll put you in jail if you suggest it did' stance...

[ImanH]

I wonder how much of the "it never happened stance" is related to the potential ramifications in terms of reparations?

[justme]

Good point, ImamH-- I'm sure it's quite a lot related to that. Admitting that it happened means years and years of a messy, drawn-out lawsuit that no one would really win...

[dmb]

I am rather ignorant on the subject. Are there any fair and balanced books out there.

[ImanH]

A friend's doing her PhD on this. I can ask if you'd like?

[dmb]

Thanks. Considering the number of years I have been here I feel I should know more about Turkish history. I am currently reading 'A short history of Byzantium' by John Julius Norwich. I recommend it.