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Indecision
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Queenslander



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Huang Dao - Shandong

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Indecision Reply with quote

Embarassed Yeah, it's me again. Need to know if a major case of indecision can be fatal. I have two contracts dangling in front of me. One is fine, but the accommodation is on a uni campus that is quite isolated, the other is wonderful but they have not been able to confirm the accommodation I need (2 bedroom). The contract they sent me stipulates 1 bedroom and I think I would be mad to sign it as there will be 3 of us. How long can I give them to confirm and how long can I keep the other one waiting?
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I too am suffering under idecisionitis... I don't know what "advice" to give you since I don't know you! Who are those extra members in your household - maybe pets?
I suggest you consider digging in your own pocket for that extra space needed. Most univesities have guesthouses for visitors and long-term residents.
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Queenslander



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Huang Dao - Shandong

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I'm not even in the habit of calling my wife 'pet' and my 10 year old son is more of a pest at times. I know for a fact that this particular uni has 2 bedroom accommodation available so why should I dip into my own pocket?
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Midlothian Mapleheart



Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 623
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy


Last edited by Midlothian Mapleheart on Mon May 29, 2006 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your wife is going to teach there, then I think it is not unreasonable for the school to give you a 2-bedroom. If you are the only one teaching, then why should the school give you a two-bedroom and a single person only one bedroom (perhaps a single person would like to convert a second bedroom into a study or an exercise room or something)? What is the approx. rental cost of a one-bedroom (for those that have to pay) and for a two-bedroom? Maybe you could get a two-bedroom and offer to pay the difference. Of course, you don't have to mention it, but a two-bedroom will cost more in the way of utility usage (for electricity at least), so if your school covers this, then no problem. If they don't, then you will probably have a higher monthly electric fee.

And I agree with the previous poster. Maybe you can just negotiate a monthly living allowance and find your own place that is best suited for you and your family.
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cj750



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the case of an employer stipulating that teachers have to live in accomidations provided..youwould have no choice to go someplace else..and if this is your first time in china the advice to seek off campus hosing should be avoided. Chinese often accomidate by reason of need and not the equal treatment so often mention in this thread...a person that has more family members is deserving of a larger living unit. keep at them and make sure they understand the family is coming...by the way usually the campuses will not allow pets...
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brsmith15



Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1142
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

QL,

You can probably (PROBABLY) keep them hanging fire for another 3 weeks or so. Am I correct in assuming that you're looking at the fall semester? If so, they like to have their faculty in place by early July, but every place is different.

Now, a brief word of caution. I've lived in all kinds of places over my many years and have been here almost 6 years now. I dearly hope that you've gone over and over and over this with your immediate family because everything you're used to will change and do so drastically. So many folks look dreamily at the ancient Chinese water colors which depict lovely, uncrowded settings, gentle breezes, peace, cleanliness. Forget it! Be prepared for dirt, noise, rudeness. Now, not all Chinese are like that but this is a BIG country.

Because there will be a lot more environmental stressers the three of you will be coping with, that can only have some negative effects on home life. My suggestion is to get as large a place as you can afford. After being joustled around in a hot, crowded, dirty city; accosted by filthy beggars; having to endure constant spitting and loud horns, you need a haven and a spacious one at that.

Maybe the schools you're negotiating with have a housing allowance for outside living, usually 2000 RMB a month.

Best of luck. You're very courageous.
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your first post you didn't mention your family members explicitly. Most employers here hire singles and occasionally a mature twosome. If your wife isn't going to work in the same school then you have various issues to deal with: visa? YOur school will most likely not defray the costs for a dependant's visa. They may even be scared of the bureaucratic tangles this involves.
And you are now saying you have a small child with you. So, who is going to take care of him? Does he like moving to China? Is it in his interest? How about his schooling?
I remember some old CHina hands telling me that in their day up to 4 couples (yes: couples) would be squeezed into apartments with 4 bedrooms and two bathrooms (or even only one bathroom).
These days, each person I know has a largeish sort of home - some have a flat, some have a hotel room, some have a large bedroom with bathroom attached to it - but no kitchen.
I also wish to inform you that upon completing your job you might find yourself and your family UNHOUSED - you will have to move out and live in rented quarters! This is the case, for example, with me: my term ends in June, and sometime in July a corvee English camp volunteer is going to move in (my school won't remunerate her or him). This means I will be unhoused for up to two months!
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Queenslander



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Huang Dao - Shandong

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused Thanks for all the replies guys. To answer some questions; I have been reading your posts for close on a year now - so I have a little idea about what to expect. But I guess it's going to be a little like watching your child born; you can read all the books and listen to all the stories yet never be prepared for the actual event. We plan to homeschool our son - that will be my wife's job. I have a Chinese brother-in-law who is also helping with all the preparations, so I'm not flying in totally blind.
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deezy



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 307
Location: China and Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Queenslander
Homeschooling, if you use the books etc. provided by your state, is excellent. I did this myself years ago with my children when I lived in Iran. It's hard work though. I met a woman from Victoria recently who is here with an Australian company for 2 years, her daughter is 11 and she goes to the local school, and is already speaking pretty good Chinese, plus she does the Victorian curriculum work sent to her.
What part of China are you going to?
Good luck.
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hermoine



Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 28
Location: china

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:04 am    Post subject: Apartment Reply with quote

Really, you can't expect the school to provide you with a 2 bedroom apartment if your wife doesn't work. I recruited teachers for many years here in China and I can defintely say that teachers with families are not the ideal job candidate in China - the visa hassles and as you pointed out accomodation demands and hassles. You should ask for a 2 bedroom apartment or 3 bedroom and pay for half or two thirds of the rent. This is standard in China with people in your situation. If you do look for your own housing, you will need to pay an agency fee of one month's rent, a deposit of one month's rent and 3 months rent in advance. T

Don't start off your job making extra demands on the school. I know a lot of posters here encourage teachers to negotiate, but in China I don't think it is wise to do so in the beginning. Only try to negotiate after you have established good relations with the school, and they have seen you or heard about your teaching and are satisfied with you. Guanxi is everything here.
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Queenslander



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Huang Dao - Shandong

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile I follow your reasoning guys, and agree up to a point; but in every position I applied for I was up front about my accommodation requirements and that my family was travelling with me. If they want me to pay for the extra room they have only to ask. I don't mind losing my face Cool
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hermoine



Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 28
Location: china

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they didn't think of this option. Some people can be very narrow-minded and be unable to think outside the box. Some places don't have a lot of experience hiring foreigners or maybe they just have other things they are busy with and haven't had time to put into thinking of your case.

I would suggest it to them and see what they think.
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wonderd



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Shanghai, China

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there

Okay, well, I guess both points have been addressed, but I'll repeat it and give my advice. 1. Having a family that's not going to be working in China is not something very easily done. 2. Getting very specific in your housing is not going to be the easiest thing for a Chinese company to deal with.

Getting here and working here is not the problem. If you are teaching in China, and you are with a reputable company, the visa will be fine. The problem is your significant other(s). If they're not working here, then perhaps they'll only be able to stay for a short period of time. There may be ways around this, but I've really never heard of them. I would suggest talking to your consulate here or the Chinese consulate in your home country.

Make it simple, especially if you speak Chinese or know someone (I think you mentioned your brother in law) that can do it for you. Take a housing allowance. 2000RMB is standard and is not too much to ask for. Then get yourself an apartment. You don't have to speak Chinese to do this, but you'll find the apartments that deal with you in English may ask for more money.

Also, beware of companies with the "no problem" attitude. If they're repeating no problem, no problem, but not really doing anything or not being specific, then you could end up here with a contract in place and you're stuck here for a year while your family has to go home.

I guess the end all and be all is that unless everyone's going to be legally working here, it might not be the best place to take a job.
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Queenslander



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Huang Dao - Shandong

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - I have just signed a contract with a university, they are giving me two bedroom accommodation and are organising visas for the 3 of us. I guess things sometimes just work out. I really appreciate all the advice and input from you all and will keep you up to date with proceedings.
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