Job Discussion Forums

[Sheri C.]

Hey Everyone,

I am about to make the trip to Russia for a year and I am trying to find out a little information before I go. I have heard that Russian men are very chauvinistic and that a single woman, in Russia (which I will soon be) is regarded as lower than dirt. I am a little apprehensive about this, being that I am at the ripe-old age of 23 , . I am afraid that my male students won't respect me.

I would also appreciate any helpful facts anyone can give about social 'rules' and faux-pas that are a definite must for foreigners to know. (like never open the vodka bottle on the table unless you plan on finishing it)

If anyone can point me to some books on the topic I would really appreciate it, too!

Thanks

[expatella_girl]

I sent you a private message. Check your PM's.

[Slim Jim]

Well, there's a great little English-language local rag that you should check out when you arrive in Moscow called 'the eXile'. It's enlightened, informative and has all the information you'll need to lay those preconceptions to rest. I don't think it includes many tips for dealing with the 'chauvinistic male pigs' you refer to in the classroom, but you'll certainly be given a refreshingly new outlook on life in this fascinating metropolis. Ain't that right, guys?

[expatella_girl]

You're advising this woman to read The Exile??!! as "enlightened and informative" !! Is this some kind of prank? She asked an honest question. That's gotta be the most misogynist publication I've ever seen. Often funny yeah.....but Jim, what are you thinking?

The Exile is available on the internet, I think it's Exile.ru. A gander at those club reviews should keep the lady from ever coming to Russia. Gee, that wasn't nice.

[Sheri C.]

Okay so lets clear a few things up here SLim. I did not call anyone in my classroom a Male Chauvinist Pig. Technically I can't.
-why?
-because I have not started teaching in Russia yet!
-so do tell how I could be refering to anyone in my classroom?
Of course you would have known that if you would have actually read the post instead of glancing at the title "American Girl in Russia vs. the Male Chauvinist Pigs" and starting some kind of self-serving, anti-feminist crusade. You see the whole post was chock-full of light hearted sarcasm, which I know can be difficult to sense in emails. That is why there was a liberal use of emoticans , like that one.

On the other hand, thankyou very much for the enlightening read on Russian Women and Culture, in the Exhile MAgazine. It did help me dispell some preconceived notions, like that it is cold in RUssia. I now know that it cannot be that cold in RUssia. How else could the women walk around naked all the time?

Next time read the post before replying.

[Slim Jim]

Gee! Didn't I stir up a little hornet's nest with a well-aimed cigarette butt! You sound offended for some reason. You requested 'helpful facts' to prepare you for your arrival in Moscow and, being the gallant gent I am, I ran to assist. I thought you might like to do a bit of background reading on Moscow, the city, it's entertainment scene, insights into some of the differences to backhome (Whatever cosy corner 'backhome' is.). But, you know, I just thrive on helping out damsels in distress, buying stiletto shoes, helping little old ladies across the road, holding the door open in the supermarket, that sort of thing.

But I digress... I guess you thought that my recommendation to read the eXile was part of some 'self-serving, anti-feminist crusade'. Seriously? Whatever gave you that idea? This after you've just written off half a nation of a country you've yet to arrive in as a bunch of women-hating chauvinists who regard all single women as beneath dirt. (They might like to see women beneath them, but this wouldn't entail any loss of respect on the woman's behalf... ) Yeah, yeah, we can quibble about semantic intent and stuff but the basic assumption was there, honey, in your own words, and you have to admit that the subject of the posting was like a red rag to a bull. Now I know some Russian guys, they're good guys; they like to buy women flowers, compliment a lady on how well she's looking, that doesn't mean they're chauvinistic? But you would be right in thinking that feminism, regardless of what variety, hasn't quite taken off in the same way as backhome, and men do not tolerate ideological emasculation as a matter of course. Men have a bit of fire in their bellies here (perhaps it's the vodka), they are even, a bit, shall we say, traditional. And as for the women, well, that's a different story all together. But suffice to say your average expatriate male tends to walk around Moscow with a grin like the cat that just stole the cream.

On the whole, you seem to have not read my words as attentively as I your own, despite your accusation. So hotheaded and eagerly beaverly were you to tap out that fiery riposte. That's the spirit, though. I like a young woman with a bit of passion! Let's have more of the same.

[canucktechie]

I have never heard any of the female teachers at my school complaining about inappropriate behaviour by a male student. I do remember one teacher saying that there was a really cute guy in one of her classes, but he was too shy to come on to her!

Really, students (or their employers) are paying good money for English courses, and they take them seriously.

This does NOT necessarily apply to kids though, who can be a real pain, but that's not a man/woman thing.

The real problem for Russian women is that there is a serious undersupply of decent men, which means that they can't be terribly choosy. That's not your problem though.

From the couple of times I have looked at it, the eXile seems to be the magazine of choice for expat Donald Trump wannabees.

[Sheri C.]

Touch� Slim,

See there you go again, jumping the gun. My origional post was an inquiry. Webster's Dictionary defines an inquiry as a close examination of a matter in a search for information or truth. The matter at hand was weither or not Russian men are Chauvinistic. So I had not "written off half a nation of a country" as you claim. (actually less than half) I was inquiring on the rumors that I had heard. But thankyou for clearing those misconceptions up for me with your last email.

More Dictionary Fun and Semantic Intent!!!!!!

I think you seem to be confusing 'chauvinism' with 'chivalry.' I know that can be confusing given that they both begin with the same letters, but fret not, I shall help you. Chauvinism means any activity indicative of belief in the superiority of men over women or Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind. I would hardly think that "buying stiletto shoes, helping old ladies across the road an holding the door open in the supermarket," is chauvinistic. Nor is complimenting a lady as you had asked me. Also, if you could be so kind as to extrapolate on what you view as " ideological emasculating behavior." Becasue you refered to feminism "regarless of what variety." That's a bit of an overexageration, don't you think? According to your logic, the power struggle between man and woman is zero sum game. ANYthing that promotes the advancement of women is "emasculating?" I am sorry. I was under the assuption that it was turn of the 21st century, not the 20th.
As to my title, of course it was a red flag. That is the whole idea, to get people's attention. I was assuming that after people read the post they would then have the minimal intelligence/sense of humor to be able see that it was not at all the rantings of a feminist, but an honest inquiry. Besides look at the fun we're having. Don't tell me you don't like to stir up a trouble on this sight. I think you have already proven that with your "well aimed cigarette butts."

Well if you will excuse me, I find this all very fun, but I have to go burn my bras and throw away my razors before I engage in some emasculating behavior, like going to work. I'll look foward to your retort.
Later Slim

[bobs12]

It's not like me to actually avoid an argument on this forum, but here I go...

Guys, let's not get into silly arguments, okay? This forum needs a bit of a sense of humour and Sheri's question was perfectly valid. For a young woman it could seem pretty daunting to come to Russia, given its reputation.

And before anyone gets any funny ideas, I'm not trying to chat Sheri up, nor seduce her into coming to work in Saint Petersburg, where there is a serious lack of good-humoured 23-year-old American girls

Sheri, I think you don't need to worry. Avoid teaching young teens (12 to 15-ish) because they tend to give little respect to anyone anyway, and would drive many a saint to distraction. Above 16, expect to get a bit more aggro from the possessive, jealous girls in your class who will see you as competition for the boys' attention. Which you probably will be

Actually, you probably won't have much choice about whom you teach (oooh, haven't used 'whom' for a while, hope I got it right ) so just be prepared to mix teaching pratice with crowd-control techniques.

I've known plenty of young women who got on extremely well as teachers here. And, ditto Canucktechie, one or two who have been besotted with shy students. (is besotted really a word? argh... losing my grip on English here...) An ex-flatmate of mine was around the same age as you when she started. She went very far as a teacher, and had a few unrequited (lingvo tells me I spelled that right ) loves along the way.

She went into teaching in businesses very quickly and was very popular. She did have a physically commanding presence, but what really carried her along was her confidence and attitude.

Basically, if you do your job well, know you're doing it well, and give all the outward signs that you know you're doing it well, you'll have respect from whoever (whomever?) you teach.

Come to St. Petersburg, there's more respect here anyway

As for chauvinism, it's more a slightly Russian form of chivalry. There is no real attitude that women are incapable or whatever. In fact, I think women hold a pretty unusual role in Russian society, especially older women. I've seen a babushka on the street firmly holding her ground when a group of builders wanted to move her and her ice-cream stall a few yards down the street. She succeeded - something a man couldn't have done.

A woman can walk through a gang fight unharmed (or so I've heard).

But at the same time Russia hasa a shocking record of violence against women.

Strange, isn't it?

A young foreign woman with a nice smile and a pleasant attitude may find more doors opened for her and more favours done than would a young man with an equally nice smile.

A lot in Russia is done on a personal level (by which I mean sidestepping bureaucracy, etc.) and can only be achieved by either paying money or arousing empathy.

I was terrified of customs officials in the city when I went to get clearance for a car. The women in the office saw it, took pity, and helped me get round some paperwork problems for free. Men in the same situtation would have thought 'what a pathetic excuse for a man' and would have used the opportunity to extract the contents of my wallet.

Anyway, that seems to be digressing and I should be on my way to work by now Hopefully this ,made at least a modicum of sense and will be of some use, but it would be good to see some more first-hand accounts from the ladies on the forum?

До свидания ребята, до новых встреч!!

[Slim Jim]

Milenkaya Maya, Patronising you was furthest from my mind, I just wanted to engage in some humorous banter and to genuinely open your eyes to aspects of life in a country where you have (perhaps) foolhardlily decided to work. Will you be going to work in Moscow? If so, it is useful to bear in mind that Moscow is a concrete babylon; an exciting, fascinating city but with a heart as cold as a 5-star hotel *beep*'s. It is an occult metropolis. Hard and cruel, occasionally illuminated by flashes of unexpected human kindness. It is a city that keeps its cards close to its chest. Scary for the new arrival but intoxicating in equal measure. From your postings I can infer that you are young and idealistic and in search of adventure. You'll get it, baby. That one year you initially planned to stay for may turn into two, into three, into four, into five... and slowly that idealism sours into cynicism. It's uncanny, the magnetic hold the place has. But I think that this scenario mainly applies to the men... Moscow: city of street cats living under tenement blocks, wild dogs that run in packs howling snapping snarling in the freezing early hours, city of teenage whores and blue bomzh corpses stepped over on the way to the metro, of rich scum in bullet-proof black 4WDs with black-tinted windows zooming by in the bat of a frosted eyelid, vile surly prodavschitsy who you will learn to fear, the offspring of rich scum who you will have to teach, militia-men whose palms you will grease, acts of random violence exploding out of nowhere... A city of contrasts, no less. Buy a kalshnikov when you arrive, failing that a can of mace. But there are some unforgettable highlights - the Bolshoi, the museums, the sweets and pastries, the winter, the parks in spring and summer, travelling on the metro just gawping at the people, taking the elektrichky out to some Moscow Region town sellers filing through the carriages peddling tawdry crap from China, and the people... if you're fortunate, you will meet some really amazing people. To paraphrase a previous poster, your adult students pay good money for English lessons to improve their job chances and because they are culturally and socially inclined to learn more and to communicate with others. The men taking English lessons are intelligent, courteous and sophisticated by and large. Teenagers from wealthy homes are vile scum. That's where 'the eXile' came in. An American male perspective on Moscow, yes, but an indispensable low-down on what to expect, some no-holds-barred journalism, bull**** detector raked up to full-power; with some Russian writing thrown in for balance, including the unmissable, deranged rantings of Eddy Limonov (pity the guy's young followers who seem to end up rotting in the zone after another jolly little revolutionary escapade). As close to the bone portrayal of life in the capital written in English as you will get. A greeny spat in the eye of mediocrity and ideological conformity. Hope this clears up any misunderstandings and prempts any PC raves from outraged sisters.

[Slim Jim]

PS. The deleted word rhymes with 'door' and is rather similar to harlot.

[bobs12]

Бефоре И го...

Er, before I go:

Never leave an empty bottle on the table. Throw it out or put it on the floor.

Always pour from a bottle with your hand holding it from the top, fingers pointing down, never with your hand underneath.

Don't wash the floor at night.

Don't whistle indoors (you'll almost never hear anyone whistling anywhere).

Don't pass things, shake hands or kiss over a doorstep.

Avoid being run over by cars driving along the pavement (sidewalk). Not so much a faux pas as a potentially fatal error of judgement.

[neil1979]

If you read Exile magazine you will see that there are of course misogynist pigs in Russia - and half of them are from the United States

Having just spent a couple of months in Russia, I can say that so much of the negative stuff you hear is over exaggerated. imo one of the biggest problems I encountered there was whingey Americans coming to Russia, leaving the USA for the first time, and expecting everything to be like it was back home, and then crying when it wasn't. If people don't want to deal with a different culture they should stay at home.

So, I don't think it's particularly harder for a young single woman to get by in Russia than anywhere else as long as she's prepared to fit in where she can and not go judging Russia by the 'superior' standards of the USA all the time.
good luck if you go

[zaneth]

In my experience (largely in academia) there are a huge number of shy, intellectual, nerdy types among Russian men.

Virtually all the teachers I know are women, many of them young. They seem to do OK (besides being horribly underpaid).

When inquiring around in preparation for a possible visit by my sister (Asian) I got mostly positive replies about her chances for a safe and interesting trip.

[GF]

What is your problem with Americans Neil1979? I worked in Russia for nearly 5 years (not a few months) and found that the Brits were just as bad as the Americans in the complaining and not being able to adapt category.