Job Discussion Forums

[Pericles77]

Hi there, this is my first post but I've been lurking for some time now and have found this forum to be quite informative.

I've just finished my Masters degree and plan to take a year off before doing my PhD by going to China and teaching English. My best friend is in Harbin and can get me a job for 72 hours a month for 7000yuan (he's in charge of hiring). I really don't want to go to Harbin though so I've sent out probably 50 resumes in the last couple of days to schools mostly in the south where I really want to go. Most places seem eager to bring me on board and have sent me contracts to look at but the highest offer I've had has been 5000 yuan including accomodation. Is it reasonable to ask for 6000? I don't want to work for too little money, but at the same time I don't want to risk throwing away too many opportunities if I ask for more money.

Thanks in advance

[kev7161]

Sometimes if you have a Masters degree in English, Education, or Languages of some sort, then you can often ask for (and sometimes get) more. I think you don't want to ask for, say, 2X what they are offering, but let's say they are offering 5000. You send them your credentials and experience, and asked for, I don't know, 8000. They may meet you halfway or give you at least an extra 1000. Or they may not.

The thing is, if you do have experience and the education, that can make you valuable to a school, you SHOULD get paid more than someone who does not. If someone at my school had a Masters in English or some other area, I'd fully expect him/her to make more and wouldn't think twice about it.

I think the trick is to "schmooze" them. I mean something like:

"Dear Sir or Madam:

I have received several job offers from schools all around China. Some schools are offering me more than yours (such as "this" school or "that" school), but I am very interested in your school's location and beautiful campus. I also appreciate the extras you offer such as private accomodations and airfare reimbursement. However, with my educational background and experiences, I feel that "X" rmb is simply not enough. As much as I'd like to work for you, I feel that I'm best served working at a different location that has offered me "X" rmb. Certainly coming to China will be a wonderful experience for me and I'm sure I can do some good things with whichever students I teach, but I also have financial obligations here at home and I have to make sure my income covers those obligations.

Thank you for your interest. Perhaps one day I can work for your fine institution.

Sincerely,"

(You may or may not want to list the names of other schools - - unless you are being truthful and they ARE offering you more.)

Now, the school's FAO is not stupid (???), they know BS when they see it, but they also appreciate the art of negotiation and they may respect you more because you are doing exactly that. What you've said in your posting here, you can reword and say to possible job opportunities: 7000 in Harbin, would rather teach farther south, would like to ask for at least 7000 (but don't let them know you'd be happy with 6000) - - then see if you'll get a 6000 offer (who knows? you may get the entire 7000!). Sometimes a resume doesn't always speak for itself.

Good luck!

[hermoine]

Having an MA degree will not make you a better teacher in China, so why should they pay you more? What is your MA in? If it is in TESOL, then it will probably help you and you may be worth more.

If you are so eager to make 1000 more, then see if you can put it in the contract that afte 3 or 6 months, if your teaching is good, they will raise your salary to 6,000.

Also, the South pays less than the North - expect a salary cut if you are going south. I know several people who were making 6,000 in Harbin, Changchun, ect. and could only get 5,000 in the South, even though they had at least a year of experience.

[Roger]

I don't know any convincing reason why Chinese employers should pay holders of a Master's a higher salary than holders of a mere Bachelor's. YOu may say this is unfair, but the fact is that you are not going to teach much of consequence, and what most of us are doing here doesn't require special teacher training.
I have the latter, yet I am being paid the usual wages. I also teach subjects (whenever possible) that do require specific knowledge, not just the ability to speak clear and neutral English.
One reason why you are not likely to attract better offers is that in the SOuth of the country there is a higher concentration of FTs. A large pool of FTs already in the country gets constantly added to. Guangdong has the most jobs to offer, and it attracts the most people simply because it is adjacent to Macau and Hong Kong. Thus, the rule that oversupply of teachers drives down salary offers becomes reality.
What's wrong with your Harbin offer?

[tarzaninchina]

Yeah, beat around the bush and should be able to pry them away from their BS.

Renewing my job hunt I'm finding similar things. They give the BS about being limited by the government when that is not true, violates international trade laws, and is in contradition with Chinese laws about hiring foreigners. Then there's the wanting you to live on-campus and stay there so as to be under their thumb on the grounds of not teaching elsewhere and to feel safe. BS yet again as China is very safe and there's no way youo'll get mugged 10 feet from the campus gate!

Schmooze.

One of my Chinese friends who speaks very good English says that English is so simple because you speak directly. Chinese is very long-winded and takes the long way around. Anyway, lunch time.

[hermoine]

Yes, it is true that schools are limited by the provincial or city govt if they are an SEZ on how much they can pay teachers in public schools and universities. You may be able to get your pay increased another way through additional time off or benefits, though.

Concerning housing on campus, it is mainly a matter of economics and avoiding hassles to have you on a university campus. First, they already have the housing available at a very cheap price on campus, so why spend extra money to house a foreign teacher off campus. Secondly, if you have any problems like you need to go to the hospital or get something fixed, a Chinese staff member will have to travel off campus, all the way to your apartment to take of you. It is inconvenient for everyone else if you live off campus. Thirdly, this is the Chinese way - Chinese teachers get free or subsidized housing on campus, not off. In addition, muggings are not so common here, but burglary is, so in that sense it is safer to live on campus. Finally, I don't know any university that cares whether you teach outside or not. Private language schools do, though.

I do know, however, that some universities give stipends to teachers who want to live off campus.

[hilary]

I've had three offers and I'm going to accept the worst-paid one. Mad? Maybe. But it's in Kunming, where I want to be, and the benefits include free Chinese classes, a bike and a daily cleaner. And my students will be postgraduates. All of which appeals to me.

[tw]

My understanding is that anyone with a master's degree can be actually recognized as a foreign "expert" whereas the rest are just foreign "teachers". Therefore, people with master's can earn more. Go look at many public college/university's job ads and you will see them mentioning xxxx for anyone with a bachelor's and yyyy for people with master's.

[Pericles77]

After much thought, I've decided to take the job in Harbin. Not just because of the better money, but also because I'll be there with my best friend, I like the climate, and because Harbin seems to me to be a much cooler city that I had originally thought.

[burnsie]

[sandinista445]

[Pericles77]

[kev7161]

I still think it's okay to negotiate - - as long as you're not overly pushy. I just signed my contract for the following school term and here are some "extras" I received, some things were negotiated for, some they just gave me to further entice me:

1) Private, two-bedroom apartment off-campus - - fully furnished
2) New bicycle to USE (not have)
3) 1/2 salary for July and August (I won't even be working then!)
4) Able to move into my new place as of July 1st (a handy thing since I can now have a place to dump my stuff as I'm bopping around China and to the US this summer).
5) All the usuals that most of us get: airfare reimbursement, end of year bonus (or a couple of free local trips), travel allowance, residence permit renewed, free meals on campus, etc.
6) A hefty salary (already offered when I applied)
7) A written guarantee of no more than 25 hours per work week (M-F)

I'm a happy boy right now.

[brsmith15]

Some of this banter about degrees reminds me of the man who went to his dentist for a routine checkup, x-rays, cleaning and got a bill for $500.

"What the hell is this?" he asked the dentist. "Why is it so high."

"You have to pay for the high education I received."

"All at once?"

[eslLori]

Having a MEd isn't the worst thing that has happened to me, but it helps when teaching. Yes, Harbin is damn cool(I worked in Daqing-30).
In Gansu, money isn't big either, but things are different-which makes up for it.
Like at home- it's what you have left that matters...