Job Discussion Forums

[judyas]

Hi there,

I am considering China as a last resort if I can't find a job in the Middle East. Right now, I'm getting schools asking me to send them my passport when they haven't provided me with any other information about their school, my salary expectations.. etc. I have already provided my CV, degree, certificate, and photo, but is it legit to ask for my passport (for visa purposes) when we haven't discussed my actual position for the school?

If anybody could outline a description of how this "negotiating" works, I would be so grateful. I'm a scared little newbie...

Thank you

[Justin Trullinger]

There's probably nothing dodgy going on, but it's hard to be sure. Certainly, when I'm hiring a teacher, we need all the info contained in his or her passport to start visa procedures. The easiest way to get it right is to have a scanned or faxed copy of the thing close at hand.

But I wouldn't be starting anything visa related until I'd made a concrete offer, and that offer had been accepted. So I don't really see why they need it at this point. I don't see how they could do you any harm with it, either, but I'm baffled by what they want it for at this time.

Is this a school you want to work for?

If it is, if I were you, I would ask them right away about what kind of conditions, pay, benefits, visa assistance, etc, they want to offer you, without mentioning the passport. If they insist, make some lame excuse (My scanner is broken...) and ask your questions again. It's probably just bad organisation on their part that they're asking for this stuff before the offer is finalized. If that's the case, they should be able to answer your questions. And if the answers satisfy you, send them the passport then.

If they insist on "passport first," you have to wonder why. In this case, I smell a rat, and would look elsewhere.

Regards,
Justin

PS Or course, I could be completely wrong, as I know "#$& about China.
Could one of the old China hands let us know if there's any reason why a Chinese employer would need to see a passport at this point?

[dmb]

Do not send your passport. In the ME you will have to send or take your passport to the consulate in your home country but do not send it to an employer. Also as a newbie where in the ME. sounds dodgy

[Gordon]

Never send them your passport info until you have been formally offered a job. You don't even know if you want to work for them. I think they want to get you to start the visa process and then hopefully you feel obligated to work for them. A sleezy sales technique. Keep your passport info confidential. Only for the government and your employer. They aren't your employer yet.

[anthyp]

Hmm, I am assuming that most of the posters who have responded thus far have never actually worked (or sought employment) in China.

The passport info should be for your employer's eyes only, yes ... but sending them a scanned copy of the first page isn't going to hurt anybody. If you stick too rigidly to this advice to wait for a concrete offer before sending it, you may finding yourself waiting ... and waiting ... most employers here want all of that info first, and then they will make you an offer. They probably just want to know what you look like, and then they'll know how badly they want you. Sad but true.

You may not like the way it works here, but that's how it goes, you have to deal with it or find yourself a job elsewhere.

[ls650]

Indonesia is often the same deal. The employer simply wants to get the paperwork running.
I know that some people suspect that it's a way to screen out the less attractive teachers - but then again they hired me, so that theory is pretty much shot down.

[judyas]

Hi everyone,

I've read all your advice and input, and I really appreciate it.

I have replied back to schools asking for more information about their school and region, expectations of me, my salary, accomodations etc... and some have not responded or diverted from the question and perpetually asked for the rest of my documents ie. mainly passport... I'm assuming that's not cool??? But maybe they really do want to see what I look like...

And I'm actually Chinese Canadian, however I'm born and raised in Canada... but I've already read on many other links that schools may not hire me b/c of my lack of 'western' appearance... so maybe I should just send a photo and go from there to see if they're still interested.....

Could someone who's worked in China let me kno how I could check the reputation of the school and whether they will live up to their end of the contract (as I've read of many scams or bad schools who've mistreated teachers when they get there on this forum.... and I'm scared about that too)

Cheers

[anthyp]

[moonraven]

In my opinion, they just want to see what you look like--and believe that you are more likely to send a scan of your passport when you haven't received an offer than a scanned photo. Don't send them anything unless you have received anoffer and accepted it. With no accepted offer, there is no paperwork to get started.

[MoggIntellect]

To be honest, China is a worker's market, not employers. There are far more positions than people, unless you are trying for one of the top unis, so don't feel bad to not send them what they want until you have your questions answered. I usually don't send anything more than my resume until I am interested in the job.

[KES]

I think part of the reason is to ensure you have:

1. A valid passport.

2. That your passport has six months or more remaining.

Schools often need to hire on short notice. And sometimes, folks apply for positions who do not even have a passport yet. So I think, in part, it serves to determine who is really legally available to accept a position on short notice versus those who are merely testing the water.

[Gregor]

OK, I hire teachers in China, and here's my take:
To start with - the passport scan (obviously not your actual passport) should be part of the documents you send in the first place.
They are not going to offer you a job - they will not do it at all; they would be insane to - before they see your face AND see the scan of your passport to know that you are not lying about the validity of your documents.
The Chinese government is cracking down, and the red tape is THICK. There is nothing confidential on your passport. There is nothing they can do with it to harm you. There is nothing wrong with their starting the paperwork before you have an actual job offer. You can still turn it down.

And yes, China is a worker's market...but that doesn't mean that they will take anyone who applies for a job. They still need to make sure the candidate is suitable. In some places, that means a white face. In others, simply a native speaker, in others, both. In more and more places, they will only hire teachers with a first degree. And so on. Some of this stuff is unreasonable pickiness and some of it is mandated by law.
You WILL find a job in China, if you want to, but you have to go along with what the employer needs. If you don't want to send the passport scan now (though I don't see why not), then you're going to have to forget this job.
I would say, scan the passport and send that along with your original documents to everyone, just automatically.

[darkhorse]

[Gregor]

A-hem.
Yes, you're right. I did not mean the actual originals. What I meant by "originals" was the documents you originally had in the basic document package to send to schools. They should be scanned versions of all of them.
Though I see no reason to block out the passport number (it should appear on your CV anyway; there's nothing anyone could do with it), it would be fine to somehow print the "not for distribution" thing across the page. Again, it doesn't really matter, but if it makes you feel more protected, then that's fine.
They want to see the picture, the expiration date, the date of birth, the country the passport is from (because in some countries, just for example, they can't employ you if your passport is from, say, Ireland or South Africa or something) and so on. Again, info that should be on your CV anyway.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't want to get immigration paperwork started. In my school, they very much WILL do that. It takes so long to get it all worked out that, if we come to a full agreement before we even get things started, it'll be six months between first contact and the teacher finally getting out here. That's just nuts, so we like to get things started. Nothing dodgy about that at all.

[Zero Hero]