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Z Visas and Residence Permits
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deezy



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 307
Location: China and Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The latest:

The Jinan FAO has said:

(a) tell the teachers to get an F visa and LIE... and say they are not coming to a 12 month contract
(b) tell the teachers to get an L visa
(c) tell the teachers they MUST NOT get an L Visa.

INSANE.
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deezy wrote:
We instructed her to apply for an F visa (as WE had been instructed by Jinan FAO). The Chinese Embassy in London has catagorically refused to give her an F, saying there is no way she can work in China under an F Visa.

The Jinan FAO has said:

(a) tell the teachers to get an F visa and LIE... and say they are not coming to a 12 month contract


I guess the instruction reached the FT a bit too late. She obviously wrote "teaching" on the visa application as her reason for going to China. Also, did she get the necessary documents for a F visa, i.e. official invitation letter and a photocopy of the employer's business license?

Quote:
(b) tell the teachers to get an L visa
(c) tell the teachers they MUST NOT get an L Visa.


Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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deezy



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 307
Location: China and Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, she put 'teaching' on the form. She got all the correct papers from us for an F.

The very latest is, that the Chinese management here have read the riot act to the FAO in Jinan, he's now realised that if we're having problems, other schools in Shandong will. He's begged for the papers back, and has said that if the teachers come over on an L he will immediately change their status.

What a b*llsup....

And Saturday morning..... the teacher in England has said she is now not taking up the post as she will not lie to get a visa, nor will she compromise herself. Frankly I'm not surprised... I would probably have done the same myself.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sequel. Deezy has reported to me that, of the three FTs who applied for an F visa to work (as the local authorities had requested they do), one was denied, and two were granted- the difference possibly being in that the application which was denied had indicated the term of employment was to be 12 months. (The other two had either indicated 180 days, or were silent on this point. Deezy wasn't sure which).
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Inner Mongolia, it takes a week before the FT's FEC is issued. Then, it's 5 working days for the PSB to issue the RPF.

FT's still need to complete a physical examination here again before the FEC application will be considered! The one I completed in Canada was only for the employer to apply for my Work Permit (formally known as the Official Invitation Confirmation). However, one can send a copy of the completed physical examination report (the official Chinese one) to the employer, and bring the original to China along with the blood test and chest X-ray reports written up by the clinic, facility, and/or lab as proof that yes you are HIV-negative and TB-free.
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johninchina



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:39 am    Post subject: In reference to the Z visa Reply with quote

I am a teacher in China and I also work with a recruiting company. As for the visa, You come to China on a tourist visa because the school wants to see you teach a class and be sure you come to their school. If they get you a "Z" visa before you come to China, then you may not go to that school and go somewhere else. This is why the schools wait to get you the "Z" visa after you get to that school. The visa is in the name of that school you are working for, incase something happens to you, they know where you work at. The school usually pays for the visa and not the teacher.
Why would a school want to spend time getting people a visa and then the teacher never shows up. This would happen if the schools let you get the "Z" visa before the teacher gets to their school. Some schools the teacher does pay for the visa but not many.
As for having to leave the country to get a "Z" visa and come back. THIS IS BOGUS AND A RUMOR!!! That is not true at all. Once you get a job, the school goes to the local public security bureau to get the visa. You can also go there to extend your tourist visa while in China as well.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johninchina wrote:
Quote:
As for having to leave the country to get a "Z" visa and come back. THIS IS BOGUS AND A RUMOR!!! That is not true at all. Once you get a job, the school goes to the local public security bureau to get the visa.

It's apparent you haven't taken the time to read the many posts to this forum. There is a very well developed history of what has actually happened to dozens of posters regarding these very issues and it is at variance with your conclusions. It is true, that in some provinces you can enter and be documented to work, regardless of the visa you entered on, but the issues raised have far more ins and outs than you, at present, imagine....

I appreciate your enthusiasm and wish you well, but you do not yet know enough about the subject matter to reach meaningful conclusions.
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johninchina



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Volodiya Reply with quote

I see that you do not know what you are talking about because I recruite teachers for every province in China and I deal with the paperwork to get the teachers to the schools. I think by recruiting teachers for every province in China that I do know alot more than you. Once you enter on a tourist visa then you can change it over at any public security bureau for a Z visa. If you are working on any other visa than that, then you are taking your own chances of being deported and the school is not allowed to hire foreign teachers.
If you really want to know for yourself, take a trip the your local public security bureau and speak to them. If anyone is told to leave the country to get a working visa and then come back into the country, they need to go to the local public security bureau and ask them. Do not take the school's word. Check with the local agency that handles visa's and you will see for yourself! This way you are not taking anyones word on the post and you are getting the information first hand. Then you will see.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johninchina wrote:
Quote:
Once you enter on a tourist visa then you can change it over at any public security bureau for a Z visa. If you are working on any other visa than that, then you are taking your own chances of being deported and the school is not allowed to hire foreign teachers.

John, begging your pardon, but this statement alone illustrates your lack of clarity, at this point, in your concept of the processes involved. The documents that give permission to live and work in China are not visas at all, they are documents issued, in country, called the "Foreign Expert Certificate" and the "Residence Permit for Foreigners". Once these are issued, the visa you entered on becomes irrelevant. It is well documented on this forum that some provinces will not issue these documents to a person who has not entered on a Z visa. You'd be doing yourself and your clients a service to take the time to read and digest the information that's been developed on these forums.
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johninchina



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:41 am    Post subject: hahahaha Reply with quote

well the foreign expert certificate means crap. It is being changed and will fade out in 2006. This does not let you work in China. The only way you will be able to get this is if you have a masters degree.
So this shows you know nothing. When you get your "Z" visa, if you know anything, The "Z" visa and the working permit is all one piece of paper. It use to be 2 but now it is one and they put it in your passport. So this again shows you know nothing. You can't get one without getting the other. They are 1 piece of paper. So again I guess you know nothing.
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yamahuh



Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am now in the enviable position of being able to answer my own question:

yamahuh wrote:

We are leaving for Canada in just over a week and returning to China at the end of August. Do we need any other documentation besides the RPF to gain re-entry into China? Would it be worthwhile to get a letter from our school to accompany the RPF stating that we are legally employed?
Do we need to take our Foreign Expert Certificate with us??


We did not book a return ticket to China until we were @ home in Canada and at that point we received confusing information about the documents required for re-entry via Hong Kong.
One travel agent said that we would have to have a forwarding ticket from Hong Kong to the mainland to prove that we were going to leave before we landed in HK. When I tried to confirm or refute this information through the Chinese consulate I was met with indifference and ignorance of the requirements. I e-mailed the Hong Kong tourist bureau and was told that indeed I would have to have a forwarding ticket to somewhere else although (being Canadian) we could stay in HK for up to 3 months without a visa.
YOU DO NOT NEED A FORWARDING TICKET IF YOU HAVE A 'RESIDENCY PERMIT FOR FOREIGNERS'. The RPF deems us as non tourists / residents and as such we entered with absolutely no hassles whatsoever. After three days blowing our savings in HK (really easy to do by the way) we re-entered mainland China in Shenzen again with absolutely no hassles. So, from the experience that we had last week I can categorically state (as far as any statement can be made categorically in this country) that the new RPF acts as a Z visa / multi-entry visa & Foreign Experts Certificate all rolled into one for the purpose of gaining re-entry to China.

Just thought I'd pass on some very recent experiences for the benefit of anybody who may be asking a similar question.

Cheers!
Wink
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamuhuh wrote:
Quote:
I can categorically state (as far as any statement can be made categorically in this country) that the new RPF acts as a Z visa / multi-entry visa & Foreign Experts Certificate all rolled into one for the purpose of gaining re-entry to China.

I can understand your pleasure in seeing for yourself that the RPF does, indeed, allow you to exit and re-enter China, freely, during its period of validity. It does this, however, by granting its holder the privilege of exiting and entering without a visa, rather than acting as a visa.

The RPF is a residence document. It states on it, in the case of an FT, that the purpose of residence is "work". In itself, it does not give permission to work. (A dependent, for example, can be issued an RPF.) The FEC in the FTs life grants permission to work, as I understand the significance of the documents.
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yamahuh



Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volodiya wrote:
It does this, however, by granting its holder the privilege of exiting and entering without a visa, rather than acting as a visa.

The RPF is a residence document. It states on it, in the case of an FT, that the purpose of residence is "work". In itself, it does not give permission to work.


OK, I understand your clarification; I think you're splitting hairs but whatever. The point I was making was that if you're in posession of one of these permits you can leave and re-enter China without hassles or any other documentation, no matter what you may have heard, read or been told to the contrary by misinformed travel agents .
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Spiderman Too



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 732
Location: Caught in my own web

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am now doing my third stint in China; third school.

My experience, and knowledge, is as follows;

On the first occasion I entered on an ‘L’ visa. The language school (as distinct from a government school) converted it to an ‘F’ visa and then a ‘Z’ visa. This was in Sichuan. I then had a medical exam and the language school got me a Foreigner Residence Permit (the old booklet type). The language school told me that I would have to teach in China for 12 months before they cold get me a Foreign Experts Certificate.

My second job was at a government university. They issued documents which allowed me to get a ‘Z’ visa in Thailand (where I went for a holiday). The university told me that it was not possible in ‘their’ province (Chongqing) to convert an ‘L’ visa to a ‘Z’ visa within China. I had to undergo another medical exam following which I was issued with a Foreigner Residence Permit (booklet) and a Foreign Experts Certificate.

The ‘Z’ visa I was issued in Thailand had a number code identifying the university that was sponsoring me. Having entered China using that visa I would not have been able to readily work at another university (maybe another university with the right ‘contacts’ could have circumvented this problem).

I am now teaching at a private college in Guangdong province. They told me to get an ‘L’ visa to re-enter China and they would / will convert it to the new type visa-like Foreign Residence Permit in China. They have already obtained a Foreign Experts Certificate (booklet) BUT I HAVE NOT YET UNDERGONE A MEDICAL EXAM.

This is the second Foreign Experts Certificate I have been issued. I HAVE A BACHELOR DEGREE: I DO NOT HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE.

Now I must undergo a medical exam in order to get the new type visa-like Foreign Residence Permit.

On this occasion I entered China on a tourist visa WITHOUT HAVING A RETURN TICKET. I wasn't questioned about a return ticket. For my first two stints I did have return tickets but no-one asked to see them.

Including exits and re-entries for holidays, I have been in and out of China 6 times. I have never been questioned about, nor had my luggage manually checked. On one occasion I was required to put my main suitcase (but not 2 smaller bags) through an x-ray machine.
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LeiShan



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what can be gleaned from this site is:
1. The Resident portion will allow you to travel abroad and back to China for its entire validity.
2. The FEC at this time is often determined locally, and can have different interpretations as to who gets it and when depending on local interpretation.
3. What visa you can get away with alos depends on local issues.
4. Everything is subject to change and to be prepared make sure you use all legal channels when entering first time.
5. Stating with the same school from year to year is the easiest way to avoid problems. (if you are happy with the school)

I am in my third year with the same school and it has been a little different each year. But, the party secretary does all the leg work and the school pays for everything. I had a medical prior to the first year. For the past 2 renewals none was required.


Last edited by LeiShan on Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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