Job Discussion Forums

[garlic and basil]

Is there any Asian country that is relatively wide open? The person described in the subject would have to be working within 2 weeks of landing on the tarmac and be paid pretty quick too (small nest egg).

And anticipating the 'we are serious career professionals who do this because we love teaching and have never been arrested for smoking a joint'... realize that for plenty of middle age working class Anglos (in this case Canadian) ESL work is just that, *a job*. Ideally it's a job with minimal taxation, minimal rules, minimal commitment (just say no to signing contracts!) and maximum freedom outside the work place. But ultimately it is about escaping from the west and squirelling away some money.

BTW, I taught in Vietnam and Cambodia for 16 months. Among my peers I am an enthusiastic, patient and prepared teacher. But I do find it a bit funny that the *businessmen* running schools see this industry as profit but somehow teachers are supposed to be holier than thou. Nope, ESL is a business. It is for the operators. It is for the teachers. And it is for the students. They are not learning English to discuss philosophy and poetry. They are doing so to make money in *their* jobs.

I, for one, am fed up with the high cost of living and high taxes, glut of controls on the free market, controls over personal liberty (I don't smoke but I resent the state interfering in one's private life - I hear that even Communist China isn't so PC). I don't care how much I make, only how much I save (debts). Korea and Taiwan sound like a hassle due to xenophobia. And if one doesn't find a job quickly there goes a grand in living funds. S.E. Asia has $5 guesthouses so if one doesn't find a job immediately, who cares? Living is cheap and easy. But who wants to earn $6 an hour?

I am willing to go anywhere and endure anything: fascist governments, war, famine, pestilence, horrible weather, even (if the wage is great) no nightlife. I don't care. This trip overseas is about the bottom line.

So where is the 'no B.S.' destination in Asia these days? Or is the only solution a time machine?

[moot point]

If Cambodia or Vietnam didn't satisfy your expectations, I'm afraid you're not going to find any easier-going nations in this region.

You want to save $400/month? Why don't you try returning to Canada and draw welfare?

[brasilstu]

[garlic and basil]

Perhaps you were joking but my truthful reply is that I don't support welfare for reasons of political conviction (libertarian tax protestor) and secondly because Canada is no longer the gravy train even if I wanted to apply. I truly feel sorry for the working poor of this nation. The social democracy of Canada didn't work which is why expatriates such as myself prefer to get all their medical care, 'pay as you go' in Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur and HCMC. Americans who think medicare is so good should visit Cuba as I did and see the mess *that* country is in (I couldn't even buy antiseptic soap or aspirin from the best hospitals in Havana).

Really, even if I supported the high taxes and government medical care of the country of the country of my birth I would be sorely disappointed. Emergency ward line-ups are outrageously long and you can't get the tests/treatment/services you choose because doctors are virtual civil servants on a budget. But I see that I have turned this into a subject on state vs. private services.

The short answer is that I ask nothing from my government and I give nothing in return. I won't die for my (or any) country or pay taxes. I'm all for communalist living but not for nation-states, which are all based on coercion. I view governments as landlords. You don't like a place, you move. One of the reasons I prefer working in Asia, especially as a tourist ,(living and working legit has some advantages but mostly drawbacks in less freedom), is that I am able to be transient, six months here, one year there, and see the world. I can't believe that teachers sign contracts. The school has all the power that way. Also, I get clues from this board and others but I would never take a job from a distance. I fly to the country, get an idea of the place and apply in person. I never take a position without talking to othe teachers first.

And to answer the other comment - the reasons I am am not keen to work in Cambodia is because the wage is low, and see my other post on pros and cons - frankly, it's a cultural wasteland. Vietnam? Criminal background check requirements. It sounds as if it is very uneven enforcement and even schools requesting so I might go to Hanoi or a provincial capital anyway. Surabaya is tempting because I was there twice and quite liked the place - but again, the wage is underwhelming. Hainan - loved it for reasons that are best discussed elsewhere, but a job posting was asking for a background check. I have run a business and I sure don't care what anyone has done in the past. Show me what you can do today. Hone your skills, be presentable, give a sample class and you're in.

Funny I should post the following comment, but you know I am starting to think that this board could be the end of the ESL scene in Asia. If the word gets out about a very good destination or an excellent school - well, the secret is lost! So maybe we are digging our own graves.

I enjoyed teaching in Phnom Penh in 1994. Everyone was (somewhat legitimately) afraid to go there. Certainly the risk was exagerrated, but I do miss the sight of tracer fire, being stopped by rocket-launcher toting soldiers at road blocks, visiting certain entertainment areas when there was military conflict (or the police and army fighting it our over their own criminal turf). For that inconvenience we made US$16 an hour. I lived like a king. Well, a prince. I enjoy the adventure of teaching ESL in hellholes. Libya? Somalia? Iraq? Afghanistan? Kiribati? (Read 'Sex Life of Cannibals').

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Try Taiwan.

[garlic and basil]

Thanks for the tip. I definitely *am* interested in Taiwan (veg food, hot springs, plenty of jobs, decent pay) but what has kept me away are the following factors...

1. The gov't really, *really* sounds uptight. I have visited their non-consulate consulates in one Asian country and in Canada. In the Asian case the woman at the counter was a real bitch, accusing me of wanting to come to her country to work (which of course was the case but I just found her manner abrasive). I have been to Communist China several times in my other work and I found Immigration a breeze, even pleasant. The HCMC official of Taiwan didn't appreciate my telling her that PRC sounded like a more relaxed place than ROC!

2. Cannot prove funds even though I have an envelope in my dresser drawer containing US$3000. Let me explain... Last year at a Canadian branch the woman made what I consider an absurd requirement - that I show them my bank balance. So, why don't I just play the game and do so? Well, for personal reasons I will not bank in Canada or the USA. My offshore bank account that I had for ten years I closed because VISA cancelled my card making accessing my tax haven cash at ATMs overseas impossible (the reason they gave was 'irregular income' - I both ran a cash service in Canada and worked as a personal assistant to a millionaire offshore taking pictures in Asia mostly. In other words I haven't for a decade had a regular job. Apparently they think I am a terrorist or a drug-runner for using cash economy almost exclusively). So even my offshore bank account is useless as a reference now. because I stooped filing taxes in Canad over a decade ago, and er... have a disagreement with them... there is no way I will open a bank account in this country.

3. Rush to find work. I have done afair amount of research on living and working in Taiwan. It sounds quite expensive, requiring one to take a job very soon upon landing. I want to be selective about where I work.

3. Inability to save. Maybe I am wrong here but how can you save any money in Taiwan? When I earned US$13 an hour in Saigon I *was* able to save because the cost of living was so cheap. That is not the case with Taiwan. Wouldn't you have to make $36+ an hour to be in an equivalent situation?

[garlic and basil]

I wrote *save* not earn. This means I must have an extra US$400 a month after I have paid all my living expenses. While perhaps there are positions where this is possible in China (Shenzen?) I see plenty of ads on this forum for Chinese jobs where saving $400 a month would be impossible.

[waxwing]

Eminently possible, for example, doing a 12-16 hour week at a University and then doing another 12 hours off-contract work at various private schools. 10K RMB/month that way isn't especially difficult (I suppose it may be only in the bigger cities though), and since the University pays for your accommodation, it should be easy to save 6-7K per month, which is about $800, at least on a good month.
People do much better than this too.
But it doesn't sound anything like what you plan to do. You didn't mention educational background, and you need a minimum of a Bachelor's degree to do that type of work, and a Masters would make things easier.
I haven't done this, but it seems that 6K is a typical private school wage, but they tend to have longer hours and so you might have a lot more trouble putting aside money with that type of setup. It all varies.

By the way, with regard to criminal records and background checks, I see very little evidence of schools actually doing this. But I'm sure some do, in some countries.

[Jared]

[Glenski]

Don't you find it ironic that you complain about "business schools" wanting to make money, yet you yourself want the same thing? What's the difference, other than the fact that they pay their taxes?

No degree means no work visa in most countries, but I'm sure you realize that. Moreover, a criminal record will put you in bad standing with most immigration officials, too.

Now, assuming you are fully aware of those things, let's get real. You want to be working within 2 weeks of landing somewhere, yet you won't "would never take a job from a distance. " Well, all I can say is good luck in your freeloading, backpacking existence.

Try the UAE, and you'll likely run into more of your kind there (from what I read here, anyway), and don't complain about what you find. You ask for the world ("minimal taxation, minimal rules, minimal commitment (just say no to signing contracts!) and maximum freedom outside the work place.)" yet you have pretty much zilch to offer employers. Reputable ones, anyway. Best of luck.

[Jared]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

First:

[junkmail]

[garlic and basil]

"What about China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand? Don't they take you on with no degree?"

China does or so I read. And I might just jump on a plane to Hong Kong, get an express tourist visa (cheaper than paying for hotels in HKG!), and go explore the south. Malaysia has so many excellent English speakers there is little work. Vietnam requires no degree. I just has misgivings about the place. Cambodia pays like $10 an hour and the pay for play scene is over there now - why teach in a ratty country with no decent infrastructure unless the pay is excellent? Thailand pay is lousy. A pleasant holiday - not a place to work.

"Moreover, a criminal record will put you in bad standing with most immigration officials, too."

"Chris420 needs to know this. "

Advice for Chris: just change your name legally in Canada and apply for a new passport. It's a no brainer.

" I never knew you could get a job overseas from your home country without having to sign a contract."

That story is b.s. I have worked successfully in Vietnam and Cambodia and not only did I never sign a contract I was never asked to. I find the whole concept ridiculous.

[SillySally]

OP withdrawn