Job Discussion Forums

[Hamish]

Generally speaking, I have tremendous respect and affection for the students and teachers at our little college. They are smart and they work very hard.

One common question I get from students is �What is the difference between Chinese and American students?� I usually have complimented Chinese people who ask this question by saying that �Chinese students work much harder than their peers in the US.�

Recently I have begun to think I understand another difference that is true, not just of students, but of many Chinese staff here as well.

They seem more reluctant to make a conscious change than any other people I have known. Until now, the people I have thought to be most reluctant to change were Eskimos, and bible bangers. (Combined Eskimos AND bible bangers have been the very worst!) Even when Chinese state that they completely agree with a proposed practice or policy, if it involves substantial behavioral change on their part, they possess extraordinary inertia.

In particular, I have been suggesting, everyday, that students and faculty use English at every opportunity. It just does not happen. Faculty members begin talking in Chinese as soon as they enter the faculty room, and many of them NEED to practice English with native speakers. Students wait for English Corner, or the entrance of the Oral English teacher into their classroom, before beginning to use English.

I am beginning to think that Chinese people are remarkably conservative.

Does anyone have a comment?

Regards,

[Count_Fathom]

How many times has each of us made the same New Year resolution?
How many times have you heard a smoker say "I'm quitting"?
I play B-ball three days in a row, and say "this is going to be routine"..

There's an eddy of my students who can resist, but the tide carries most away. My French and Spanish (especially my Chinese) would be much closer to fluent if I took this advice. Those books in my head would be written, I'd have six Uni degrees, my floor wouldn't be soooo dirty... I find it more of a universal trait, Chinese are no exception.

[MyTurnNow]

[Bill Shagley]

yes, it has to do with some rather regimented thought processes. This can be seen in everyday life. For example, the taxi driver automaticaaly presumes that I am going to the university. Why? Because it is the usual or likely answer. Any other destination raises few worried questions because these people lead very routine lives. However, language is not so easy to predict. Conversations can go anywhere and many students are not ready for this.
Even in Chinese conversations, we can see that people often speak in cliches, state the obvious, speak phatically or just talk about nothing. They usually use very little vocabulary.
Yet another factor is that the students have not matured and lack the social skills to make decent conversation in any language. Many of them are dull, unimaginative, boring, silent, withdrawn, unstimulated, shy, emotionally retarded, moronic, spoiled, fearful and downright childish.
This is not good for communication.

[MyTurnNow]

[Roger]

The lives of most Chinese is a lifelong series of repetitions, a mindless grind.
Maybe it has a little to do with how they have to learn their own lingo. The writing of characters is extraordinarily repetitive, and it seems it gets carried over into learning other subjects.
But it also is to do with a backward teaching style that does not stimulate creative processes and imaginative thinking.
Learning is a robotic activity initated by the teacher. What the teacher demonstrates the students repeat. I often complained here about this "communitarian" approach. It thwarts any budding excellence.
And what passes for seemingly "diligent" students are in point of fact young learners in spite of themselves, people who have already lost their own individuality and identity. Make-believe is their greatest achievement, copying from their neighbours down to the wrongly-placed question mark in the dictation.
Your Chinese colleagues may not want you to know that China has one of the world's highest youth suicide rates! It is an over-conformist society that craves freedom without knowing what freedom is, a society that badly needs imaginativeness and curiosity but that cultivates a shallow image of education.

[Hamish]

[MyTurnNow]

Here's one to start with: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/06/1038950192721.html

Easy to find info on Yahoo! about this. Seems young people, women, and rural dwellers have astoundingly high rates.

You can do a little direct research: if you teach older kids/teens/young adults watch for signs of cigarette burns on arms. Some serious weirdness brewing up...

MT

[Hamish]

[MyTurnNow]

I haven't seen it as much here but I've seen it a bit...I don't often get too close to kids anymore. In the Northeast it was disturbingly common.

MT

[Roger]

Re suicide rate:
You will find nothing in the Chinese official media, of course, but I have come across mention of this problem in SCMP (over the last ten years, more regularly before 1998 than since) as well as in other publications that rely on WHO input.
Also, if you live in HK - I lived there for two years - you are going to get a rather guresome insight into this problem as it is a fact of social life here! I once left a high-rise, hearing a thudding noise. Soon people were swarming around the place, and the watchman told onlookers to move away. My girlfriend who lived in that house told me later someone had plunged to his death! It was an adult, but children are famosly known to do this every week too!

And, believe it or not, but in one of my classes I was told that a student had committed suicide (in Guangzhou). The same happened in a school I worked in Hong Kong!
So, I have an unusually high number of anecdotal evidence, but it is still very shocking to me!

[struelle]

[China Plate]

There have been some very valid points made here, especially concerning repetition and lack of imagination. I had an incident which, I think, portrays this quite well.

I was approached by a senior English teacher, and her colleague. She is generally regarded by her peers as the best English teacher in the school. She is certainly the best English speaker.

They asked me how they could improve their student's English. I suggested monitoring their progress. I showed them how to formulate a simple matrix, with expected learning outcomes. I then added three columns for assessment of a class as a whole (I did not think individual assessment would be comprehendable at this stage). The columns showed their level at Poor, Good or High.

My reason for this was that I had been receiving absolutely no indication of the levels of the 18 classes I am teaching each week. This would allow me to concentrate on the aspects that each class needed to work on. It would also, hopefully, assist future FTs.

My colleague's response was "Why should we do that? They must learn one chapter of the text book each week."

In three seconds of absolute madness, I seriously considered explaining my reasoning. Their blank faces convinced me that it would be better to find solace in 12 cans of Tsing Tao pijiu in the fridge.

[scot47]

It makes me wonder about different learning styles. Who are we to tell our students how they should learn ?

After all the English=speaking world is hardly renowned for its learning of foreign languages !

[arioch36]

Actually, unfortunately, I think the Chinese governmant's reaction to SARS shows the opposite, their inability to adapt and adjust. Their reaction was straight form their old playbook. Cover up and say there is no problem. If this fails, criticize those who covered up. Announce a new "enlightened" policy. Come down with burdensome and ridicously overdone rules. Pretend there is success, ignore the factors that contributed to the original problem.

I'm not trying to be cynical. In most ways I respect the government. But the government and Chinese people seem to be culturally ruled by fear, and this seems to dictate their under-reaction, and over-reaction. Common sense and reason rarely is the reason for policy enactment. Sadly, I believe that these same cultural reasons are why there is so much suicide.., the Chinese keep the problem hidden, won't seek help, and then doesn't know how to act in an appropriate manner