Job Discussion Forums

[WiseMan]

Hello

I have just completed my 5 weeks intensive CertTESOL moderated by Trinity College London.

I want to work in Saudi Arabia, but what are the chances for a newly qualified person in obtaining employment there?

I have a degree and have been employed previously as a research chemist and as a computer consultant, but i don�t have any teaching experience as yet.

What is the best course of action for me to be successful in working eventually in Saudi?

Is there anyone here working for a school in Saudi that would require a teacher with my background?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bebsi]

Your chances of getting any of the good jobs are pretty much zero.

However, you can try organisations like International House, English First or ESL. Be warned, their packages are not great, but for a Saudi "rookie" (hope you don't mind me putting it that way!) they will enable you to get that very valuable foot-in-the-door.

Expect to earn not more than SAR 7.5K p.m. and to work fairly long hours, but I sense you don't mind doing that.

Good luck!!

[WiseMan]

Thanx

I am getting more aware of the types of positions that may be available to me as my first teaching assignment but that doesn�t put me off, I have had to go through something similar in my previous persuit for employment.

I have to gain experience somewhere and I think that it would in the long run be more beneficial for me to work initially in Saudi, as in the future I would like to take my family over as well.

Even the likes of international house in their adverts want one years teaching experience, how rigid are they about this. I have sent them an email a few days ago, but we will see what happens.

Also where�s the best place to put my resume online?

[31]

You have a family to support?

With no experience and a pitiful CELTA? you can only get an entry level job. Entry level jobs pay badly and you cannot bring your family.

Your only chance as I see it is getting a job at a Community College who maybe desperate because they are in the middle of nowhere and you can bring your family after 3 months. But your kids-there won`t be schools and facilities in the middle of nowhere place where your CELTA takes you.

Coming to KSA with no experience and poor qualifications is only possible really if you are single.

[Bebsi]

They all say they want X quals and Y experience, but theory and practice are very different things in KSA. If you are in the right place at the right time, you could do OK. I think that by getting your CV out there as much as possible, sooner rather than later some recuiting guy/DoS is going to be looking for someone urgently, and if you just happen to waft down intio his hands like a leaf on a summer breeze, you're hired! Commercial exigencies rule; if I was looking for someone fairly fast to stand in front of a class of paying students, and happened to pick up your CV, I would give you a call for a chat. If you were ready to be there tomorrow and I was looking for a body to be there YESTERDAY, welcome to KSA! That's basically how it works.

www.tefl.com is a good place to post an online resume. Also, send an application to the various private operations. Do a good covering letter, pointing out that you are keen to experience a new culture, saying a bit about your previous experience in whatever field, and making obvious your immediate availability. The last of these, especially, will go a long way, along with your obvious enthusiasm.

You appear to be mature? That helps in KSA, as they do NOT want twentysomethings, generally speaking.

As 31 has said, however, these entry-level jobs will rarely sponsor your family to come over, so be prepared to be away from wife/kids for a year or two. As I said earlier, these jobs are only for the experience, not the money.

By all means try the community colleges, but I have experience of them and even they generally want you to have experience. Gulf exp, while preferred, is not always essential. They are not a bad long-term set-up, however and in addition to excellent holidays, they usually allow you to bring your family. However, some places like Hafr Al Batin and Hail, while fine for a childless couple, are not good for expat families as the schooling facilities are extremely limited. Dammam CC, on the other hand, is on the doorstep of the Dammam/Khobar conurbation.

Get a job in Saudi, try to make it a one-year contract, and at the end of that year start looking again. Things should get better as you go along

[WiseMan]

Thanx

So would it be better for me to gain experience initially in England, maybe for one year and then apply for Saudi positions, or would this put me in the same situation as I am in now.

I think that gaining the first couple of years experience isn�t going to be easy and the jobs aren�t going to be great wherever I go, but is there a solution to this situation?

I know that the best way to get your foot on the ladder is by being recommended by someone already in the profession, does anyone here know of any places that are recruiting at the moment? so that I could forward my resume on to them.

[Bebsi]

Get experience anywhere you can. This applies to any job or profession, you must start at the bottom. However, what makes it difficult in TEFL is two special factors: firstly, it is not a particularly well-paid profession (I won't go into this now, but WHY it is so is a favourite topic of mine!); secondly, it is very competitive, even for "difficult" postings such as KSA, and there are plenty of experienced people out there looking for the better jobs, making a lot of experience vital for the rare enough well-paid jobs. Yes, most of those are in Saudi!

Saudi experience is always better of course, but it's the usual catch-22 situation. You must get Saudi experience in the lesser-rewarded jobs, as has already been described. My earlier points about applying and hoping someone needs a teacher at a given moment are very pertinent, but it is still better, of course to have experience. Take whatever teaching job you can, wherever you can (i.e. UK), in order to get started...every day after that is an extra day's experience. From there, keep bombarding Saudi with applications, but don't waste time on the likes of the universities, the Royal Commission or BAe Systems for a few years.

You can in the meantime, do a DELTA if you wish, or even an MA, although Saudi, unlike the UAE is more concerned with experience than with quals.

Go for it, and the best of luck!

[31]

It is worth pointing out that the 7-8000 riyal jobs are unlikely to give a Letter of No Objection and are likely to con you for things like iqama etc. It seems that a married man with kids is in for a terrible time working for one of these outfits. Even if you could get your wife and kids out where would they live? You would at best be sharing with nutters and could afford nothing on that money. I don`t know your situation but must you do this?

I do know an American who was newly qualified and got a job at a community college in the sticks where Bebsi mentioned. He got the job late like in October and after 3 months got his wife and boy out. The boy was home schooled and they were determined to do 2 years as they really needed to save. They did ok as the community college were fair about pay and conditions. I think if it were me and I had to come here as the OP i would try for one of the c. colleges. Please don`t do the 7-8000 riyal jobs unless you are single and able to put up with a lot of agro.

[Bebsi]

Wiseman,

You may be starting to wonder about these seemingly conflicting reports from 31; he says don't touch the cheapo schools, I say, go for them!

Actually, the advice is not as contradictory as it appears. 31 is saying that they are best avoided. I would say, that if possible, you should avoid them, but sometimes, if you wish to get Saudi experience, they may be your only way in the door.

As 31 very correctly points out, the biggest drawback with those operations is the issue of an NOC (No-objection Cert). They may not give you one, in a nutshell. Some of them are notoriously reluctant to give such a cert. Without one, when you go to apply for a subsequent Saudi visa, the relevant embassy, on seeing the previous stamp in your passport, will ask for an NOC if your last departure was less than (I think)2 years previously. People have got around this by replacing their passport, but it's a slippery slope best avoided. The main practical problem with this is that you will have wasted your experience as you will not be able to cite it. In any event, there is big talk now about abolishing the NOC requirement, and I reckon it will happen in the next year or two at most.

Back to your immediate situation. You could, if you got a job, only accept it on condition that you would get an NOC from them at the end of your contract.

Another alternative is to get your experience outside KSA, in another Gulf state. That way, you would have the best of both worlds: Gulf experience, but without any worries over whether you would get back into KSA later.

The best places to get such experience are the private secondary schools in places like the UAE. This is now the tail end of the summer recruiting season, but you could still get in there. The two places that spring to mind are Al Nahda in Abu Dhabi and Choueifat in various Emirates locations. I understand that they are known to have taken people without experience. The money is not great...around 6.5K AED a month (same as SAR, more or less), but if it's just Gulf experience you want, you could do worse. They DO give OK accom, I believe, but family stays at home! Try the UAE forum for further info.

You could also send a CV in to Qatar Aeronautical College. They generally like some experience, but as they tend to operate on a short contract basis, they have a high turnover. Malachy Mulholland, the guy in charge there, is worth writing to with a CV. A practical man who looks at all aspects of a situation, he is often in need of teachers at short notice, so try him. I did a short-term contract there and it's fine. As a Gulf rookie, you could do an awful lot worse. The salary is around QAR 9K a month, with accom, flights and shared use of a car. As short-term experience, it would suit you perfectly.

What 31 says about the CCs is more or less true. They have been known to take people without experience (newly quald.) but that is the exception rather than the rule. You don't need Gulf experience by any means, just general EFL experience, but a couple of years would be the norm. Try them by all means. Hail and Hafr Al Batin, being KFUPM colleges, actually allow teachers to bring their spouses with them on first arrival (the only employers in KSA to allow this, as far as I am aware).

Hope this is of help, WM. Of course you can also try getting experience in England, or other overseas locations. The problem with the latter is that, with the exception of the far-east, they don't really pay what a man with a family would expect. Ultimately tho, the Gulf is the place to be if you want the dosh!!!!

Good luck!!

[31]

To add to what Bebsi said:

I am sure he is right about the NOC but you can`t rely on the rumour that it will happen soon. I can think of other rumours that everyone said were going to happen but didn`t. What if it takes 5 years?

Insisting that your employer agree to an NOC as a condition of accepting the job won`t work. The bottom of the rung employers have to say anything to get people and when summer comes round and you want it there will be nobody around to provide it. What could you do? Wait forever for the labour court to act?

I agree with Bebsi that QAC would be good. The money is reasonable and they are straight. But they are losing the contract at the end of the year but you may get a few month in and you can apply for jobs in KSA.

I know this is not want you want to hear but I urge you not to accept one of the 7-8000 jobs because if they skimp on the pay they will skimp on the accomodation etc. You will end up in a crap flat sharing with nutters, paying out of your own pocket for iqama and transport. On that money you cannot have holidays at Eids and how will you cope with not seeing your family for 11 months? It will be a rough year and with no NOC largely wasted.

Hang in for a Community College. Good Luck

[Bebsi]

WM,

Just one or two comments to add to what 31 said.

No, you cannot wait for the NOC rules to change. As an aside, however, to anyone else interested, there are very big plans afoot in KSA in industry and trade, and they are very keen to attract foreign investment and certain skilled foreign labour. This includes making visas to KSA much easier to get (they are also opening up to tourism) and a necessary corollary to that is that the NOC will have to go. They themselves have openly acknowledged that it is an archaic provision, designed to protect company secrets in the early days and to make sure that third-country labour didn't change employers too easily. It is likely that it will go soon.

It is true that many unscrupulous employers will do anything to get you on site, but will subsequently go back on their word. From what I hear, International House are among the more reputable of the private schools, and you could try to get something in writing from them. [Any readers out there with IH experiences willing to join in here?]

There is talk about QAC losing their QP contract at the end of the year, but they could, as 31 says, be good at least for a short-term gig. They took on a few new teachers as recently as a week ago. Even if you had a three or five month contract, it would make you a more attractive prospect for the CCs for next summer.

While some of the CCs say they recruit for the spring semester, it is in fact rare, and generally speaking, they only recruit in summer for the autumn semester. Give them a try, you never know. My previous comments re exigencies of getting teachers in a classroom are always pertinent.

[31]

Just one thing to add to Bebsi:

He is right that the iqama is only 500 and I still don`t understand why govt. employers charge for it-is it because they can? But the medical etc. in London-crap employers will not cover that and if you can swing holidays will charge you 200 for the visa as well as anything else they can. On 7000 that is a lot.

[Henry_Cowell]

[scot47]

He must surely want to see all those nutters at first hand ! (The expats I mean !)

[WiseMan]

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

One of the main reasons for me looking at Saudi is for the culture, i am currently living in England and find that things are going downhill fast.

The life here revolves around work and at the moment it looks like I would have to work until I am 70 years old before I retire, this is not really what I have planned for my life.

The education system is getting worse. The only way of giving children a good start in life is the very expensive private schools.

The list goes on as to why I want to find this hypothetical utopia, does it exist anywhere in the world.