Job Discussion Forums

[burnsie]

Today I really ripped it into about 5 guys in the class.

I have had enough of their constant chattering in Chinese and their lack of interest in the class. I would ask them a question they would look to eachother with no idea or talk about in Chinese directly to me.

I told them that they were a waste of space, they have no idea about the real world etc.

They hang their heads in shame but only for 10 minutes later they were back at it again. I ripped it in again this time even more scaving then the last.

I then had one of the girls (who could speak english) tell me about how they are here because of their parents. She also said that after Chinese teachers they come to the english class for a different type of teaching from the rigid Chinese teaching. Yes that's right, so you come here to muck around. Not on my watch!

One of the kids said I was too fast. OK, fair enough. I will slow down.

Then one said it was boring another said that teachers had a bad attitude! I went - what!! Do you study at night english? Do you prepare for the next day? No of course not. So who has the bad attitude?

Should I really worry about these little crettins? Am I being too sensitive? Am I caring too much?

If this is what teaching is going to be like, a constant fight against lack of motivated kids then this is ridiculous.

[tw]

[tofuman]

Don't let them sit together.

When you move them, tell the other students that if they talk to them, you will deduct points from their score.

Call their parents. Have a colleague do it for you, preferably someone with a lot of "face."

Definitely fail them if they don't change.

Do give them special attention and opportunities to talk English with each other and you.

Document so you can support your reason for failing them.

[burnsie]

This class has just got to me rather than others I have done. I have been doing this for a year and other classes are like water of a duck's back but this one is not.

In a small class of about 15 it's difficult to do anything like separating. You can't fail them as they continue up the course with no real problem. The FAO doesn't care. To busy counting the money he has extorted from the parents.

I give them ample of opportunity to chat. I ask the lots of questions as the class is small. I even let them talk about anything as long as it's in english.

The thing is I don't want them to win! I don't want them to think they are getting away with it from me.

Anyway the good thing is I only have them for another 2 weeks! Unfortunately it will be another FT's problem next semester! Bad attitude I know.

[Keath]

Dont waste your spit. Just kick them out of the class. If you are a good and fair teacher and the class respects you they will applaud your effrort. If not - then you can expect to enjoy the subterficious political manuevering of those exiled students to have you removed as a teacher.. at the very least complained to parents..

If the parents come to your class to complain, yell at them for being bad parents and not discipling their children, then explain to them in confidence you are concerned because several of their kids exibit a private lack of toilette training.. Then kick THEM out of your office or class..

Good luck sucka!

Keith Curran
www.journeyeast.org
www.ESLSchoolWatch.com
www.BusinessESI.com

[monju]

I really sympathise with you burnsie, some of my (so-called) college students drive me nuts at times.
What gets me most is the texting with cellphones and eating their breakfast in class.
I've made students leave the class before and have told them not to come if they don't want to participate - they still come though (monju screams).
I don't think you're being overly sensitive - it just shows that you care about your job.

[nolefan]

sounds like you need a break, mate! isn't almost vacation time? you sound like a perfect case for being burned-out on teaching...

[Zero Hero]

I would tend to agree with 'Nolefan'. You need a break and I suspect you are also suffering from culture shock. The ranting and raving is but a symptom of this inner confusion.

Whatever the situation with the students, your going into fits on them will not exactly serve to encourage their English studies, will it? Yelling like an insane lunatic is not going to exactly promote and foster a healthy learning environment, is it? Perhaps this will come as a surprise to you, but Chinese students are not exactly renowned for their academic diligence.

Remember, your only function there may be that of the token white man, and many of your students (and most of their parents) will believe that simply by being in the same room as a mystical white man students will somehow magically 'soak up' English and be able to begin to converse fluently in the language after a few moments.

We have to remember, this is a nation of people who, for example, avoid the phonological symbol for the numeral 4 because it is 'similar' (never defined) to the phonological symbol for 'die/death/dead'. That is, because one totally arbitrary Saussurean sign 'is 'similar' to' another, it must be avoided because to not to do would be 'unlucky'. That is, these man-made arbitrary symbols have some form of magical power and, if evoked, can take on a life of their own and begin to influence and intervene in human affairs.

It would be hard to find more superstitious mumbo jumbo codswollop in the heart of darkest Africa.

And to believe there are hundreds of millions who really believe such claptrap.

[burnsie]

[monju]

zero hero wrote: We have to remember, this is a nation of people who, for example, avoid the phonological symbol for the numeral 6 because it is 'similar' (never defined) to the phonological symbol for 'die/death/dead'.

It's 4 actually: 四 (4) has the same pronunciation as 死 (die,dead) although the tones are different.

Well said burnsie - I hope you have a wonderful holiday!

[kev7161]

One thing you can do to break up the "monotony" for the students is to assign various jobs to students, you know, to help out the foreign teacher. Examples:

1. Someone can pass out papers for you
2. Someone can gather papers for you
3. Someone can "help" you run the computer
4. If you use the tape player, someone can be your tape player person - cue him/her when you need them to press the start/stop buttons.
5. At the end of class, have some students help you clean the chalkboard, pick up papers that may have fallen or been thrown on the ground, collect papers (see #2), and any other kind of busy work that you may have.
6. Have your own class monitor (doesn't really have to be their regular one) - - his/her main task is to keep tabs on other students who may be sleeping, playing with their mobile phones, chatting in the back of the room, etc. He writes their name down in Pinyin, Chinese characters, as well as their English name and what the infraction is. This is especially a good task for two or three students if you have those classes of 60 or so. (make sure this person really does his job - - call him to the floor if you notice infractions but he doesn't write anything down)
7. Heck, you can even "forget" something in your office from time to time and have someone run to get it for you.

I've had students come up and try their hand at a part of my lesson. I'll feign tiredness or sickness and say I need some help. The student I call is the "teacher" for a few minutes. Obviously, which part of the lesson is pre-planned. The "lazy" students seem to perk up when one of their own is up there.

Why do all these things? There are several reasons. I've noticed that most Chinese students of mine seem to enjoy being a help to me (even some of the worse ones!). If I say I need help with something, I have numerous volunteers to take me by the hand. Also, doing tasks during a lesson breaks up the time of just sitting there - gets them out of their seats. This works in grade schools back home, there's no reason why it wouldn't work in high schools here - - write down everyone's names on individual strips of paper. Create a "job board" (perhaps using some of the ideas I listed above) - - 5 or 6 different kinds of jobs. Each week or even each class, assign a different person to a specific job, rotating the names daily or weekly.

How is this helping them learn English? Well, for one thing, it shows you if they can follow directions and it may keep their interest for awhile. If they are not sleeping or chatting, they may be getting a little more from the lesson - - maybe. In addition, they are also learning a little bit about resoponsibility. You may actually have to work a little at having something for them to do each class, but try it out for awhile, see if it works. I actually thought about this idea a few days ago while contemplating my future job this fall with small kids. I wish I would have tried it out with my Senior classes.

Another couple of ideas: attendance taker, paper sorter (usually the one who has collected assignments), class recorder (records in your grade book absentees, assignments, etc.).

[benno]

Chin up Burnsie, most teacher in China understand where you are coming from, teaching Chinese fcukwits is hard going sometimes
dont let the *beep* get you down

[Louras]

You will never win, mate. I go with the kids that want to learn. Sometimes even the cool athletic types start participating. If they don't - check the worry in my eye.

[Roger]

Actually, Zero HEro said something worth considering. CHinese are dictated by more superstitions than the rest of us.
Apart from that, I simply think grafting an element from Western classroom foreign language instruction onto the archaic Chinese rote-learning system cannot produce meaningful results: students' attitudes toward us are conditioned by their COnfucian upbringing which is incompatible with what we are trying to do.

Take it lighter, Burnsie! My FAO repeatedly has told me to simply ignore students who doze off during class, students who use their cellphones while class is in progress and students who do homework; 'nada' say I - I am NOT a burnt-out case just yet, unlike my FAO who takes the most cynical views of Chinese students (and he is a CHinese himself, after all!!!).

Maybe in your situation it might be best to order those miscreants one by one to the front and deliver their silly monologues to the whole class!

[burnsie]

Yes, just one of those days yesterday. Today is a new day and a more relaxed atmosphere.

Today we didn't even open the book. We chatted and I got to know the students more. They were more appreciative of this. Still, many can just say only single words (even after 1 1/2 years of constant english teaching). But a few can talk OK.

I really don't care if they turn up and sleep or text with their phone but I hate the talking and chatting. I specifically ask them questions when they chat.

I learnt early on that involvement is the key to listening in class and I constantly use them as examples and do role plays, I constantly ask them questions and use all the classroom and not stand in one area. I use simple examples and something they can relate to.

Anyway I have lowered my expectations considerably.

I suppose even after 1 year doing this job I still haven't learnt myself that accountability in China is non existant!

Anyway I doubt I will be doing much more college work as I am now starting to do more business development and marketing which is my background.

Thanks for all the kind words.