Job Discussion Forums

[anthyp]

OK, so my school asked me to do a little favor for them and I asked them to give me some time to make up my mind ... or let the trusty Davesaholics make it up for me.

You see, my school has an affiliation with an English training center that has recently opened here, and this training center promised its students it would have a foreign teacher by the time classes begin on the 6th. Problem is, he's having "visa troubles" and can't get down here in time! So they turn to me!

I would have to teach only six days, but 3 hours a day and get this -- 60 RMB per class! I will have to negotiate that up but I don't want to seem like an *beep* for asking for too much since my school has generally been very good to me. Anyway it's children and I hate children but there'd only be 20 of them in each class, so I think I can handle that. Well, I don't hate them but I don't really know how to teach them.

I asked them to give me a day to think about it: overall I am inclined to accept since it's only for a week, but their offer has to go up a bit, don't you think?

[tw]

[KateCee]

[Zero Hero]

If you stoop down to the level of working as a 'teacher' for the pittance that is 60 RMB (remembering that there are FTs in Shenzhen earning 20,000 and 30,000 RMB a month for 20-hour weeks) then all of a sudden that is all you will ever be offered.

I do not believe that this could be a serious offer and so must assume it is some form of test of character and professionalism. No teacher with any level of professionalism would accept that meagre wage and neither would anyone with character. If they really have been so good to you and you have been so good for them then you should be rewarded, not punished.

And people wonder why salaries are taking a nosedive in China!

[Roger]

First thing: a TEACHER who says he HATES CHILDREN simply isN'T a teacher! Well, you have sort of retracted that statement, but still...

Why do they offer you a mere 60 kuai? HOw much does that other guy stand to earn? Come on, if they ask you to do them a favour you have every right to ask them these questions!

It probably isn't t h a t guy that's having troubles getting his visa; it is the employer! Or he is unable to lure anyone else there. NOt at such a low hourly wage!

My guess is that your school, while being "nice" to you will eventually turn this into a permanent state of provisional employment. If you accede to their wish they will most likely stop trying their best to find a full-time person. You will probably be their guinea pig of a white face in that training centre that's supposed to make money for the school.

[Volodiya]

I don't blame you for hesitating. That's no small favor they're asking and not accepting the offer is not the only way your relationship with your employer could be spoiled. This extra 18 hour a week commitment could drag on for far longer than six days: then, where would you be....

My advice, nice as you are, is to very politely tell them it's just impossible for you. (Any chance of raking up somebody who needs the hours? and likes kids? 60 RMB is better than nothing...? sort of at loose ends at the moment?)
____________________

Are all opinions equal? No way.

[Chris_Crossley]

Last summer, a private language school which teaches children exclusively asked me to teach in what they called a summer school. However, this "summer school" was simply an intensive programme of study based on what they were already doing at the weekends.

I was asked to teach for six hours a day for seven days in a row at an agreed rate of 125 RMB per hour. I took the job and managed to get through it all with no major problems (goodness knows how I did it, though!), thus earning 5,250 RMB in a very short time. If each class was 1 hour long, then I would insist on nothing less than 125 RMB and would automatically reject any offer less than that. Do not sell yourself short. There are always people who want you "on the cheap".

In fact, I got a call from another private school, only this one deals exclusively with over-18s in their student body. They wanted me to teach for 20 working days (i.e., Monday to Friday over four weeks) for five real hours per day for a salary of 5,000 RMB. I said no.

The school called back the next day and raised the offer to 6,000 RMB for the same working conditions. I still said no, and insisted both on a maximum of four teaching hours per day, not five, and more money.

Today, they called me and said their final offer was 7,000 RMB and they promised to guarantee me no more than four teaching hours a day. I have yet to make up my mind, but I told them I would let them know by Monday.

If schools want people to teach during what is technically teachers' holidays, then one needs to play hard in order to get something remotely reasonable. Since I had totally refused their first two offers and since I have a Chinese wife who can act on my behalf, the school (reluctantly) has agreed to raise its original salary offer by 40% and reduce the maximum hours by 20%.

It truly does pay to negotiate in China. Never believe for a moment that a first offer is a last offer, especially if the work is going to be part-time or else temporary full-time (as in this case). You have nothing to lose by trying. If it does not work, just forget them. You're likely to get other offers from rival schools if they want expats to teach there.

[Zero Hero]

Some good points are made above. Also, there is the distinct possibility that this teacher with "visa troubles" may not even exist, or it may be that you will be played off against each other in order to see who will be willing to work for the least.

As well intentioned as you doubtless are, the problem with doing people favours in China is that they are simply never repaid. Also, what on Monday is a favour you have done them can often become a normal part of your job description by Tuesday.

Either way, 60 RMB is pathetic and has most likely only been put on the table to see how you value yourself.

Also, I am worried about your "only 20" kids in a class comment. Twenty kids is quite different to an equal number of adults, and teaching children can often result in more work than is needed for adults; it can be quite deceptive.

[The Voice Of Reason]

...

[wigan4]

Ok, I've never worked in China (I don't think a week counts!) but here's what I'd do. First, the money is peanuts and obviously superfluous to you since you were never planning on it--I wouldn't even consider it.

I think you have two choices--first, you can try to simply politely refuse to do it for whatever reason you can make up. That appears to me to be your preferred solution.

If that's not a viable option, and only you in your judgment of them and the situation can make the tradeoffs to determine that, then I think you enthusiastically accept the offer to help out in the spirit of 'team play' and tell them not to worry about the money--that if the school needs help in a crisis then you're happy to help them this time.

In other words, if in your judgment there's no way to get out of it, you can either work for a snarly 87 cents, or work make them indebted to you for the next time you need a favor, or at least the next time a bad deal rolls around. I'd have to think having them in debt to you, or at least to increase your status in their eyes, will be worth more to you in the long run than 87 cents extracted from them with bad grace and resentment. Maybe, for example, you can bargain your way into the new teacher picking up class for you on a Friday when you need to get away--again, you'll be a better judge of what's worthwhile.

In no way would I plump for more money because then for sure you're encouraging them to take the attitude that you've mutually negotiated an acceptable business arrangement and they'll simply default into it in the future. If in your opinion you must do it, then refuse the money and 'barter' your service into something non-monetary the school can offer you, even if its only goodwill to be expended later on someting worthwhile. At least, that's my (admittedly almost totally ignorant) opinion.

[Roger]

[anthyp]

Wow, thanks for all the responses thus far -- very helpful.

Just to clarify, first of all, as I've already said, the school I am currently working for has asked me to do this "favor" because of their close relationship with the training center, which is actually located on - campus! They know exactly how many hours I have this week (2) and that I am not terribly busy ... so I don't think I could use the old "too busy / don't like the commute" excuse.

There isn't any danger of this becoming more than a one - time thing, since I will go home sometime after my birthday on the 15th and everybody knows this. The issue is, Do I help them out or don't I? And it isn't so much about the money, I am just tired of doing them favors that yes, they haven't really repaid (does taking me out to dinner count?). They would pay this time and I am sure I could get them to agree to a more reasonable number, but ... I don't really want to, cripes. But if I don't, the training center will not be in good shape.

I don't care much about the training center, but the lady who acts as my FAO and the head of our department (both of whom have been especially helpful) dropped by to ask me, and I am afraid they will take a "No thanks" personally.

[tw]

[Volodiya]

Roger wrote:

[Zero Hero]