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Adnil
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Shanghai, China
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 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: Changing jobs mid contract - visa & teaching expert cert |
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I have been working in my current ESL job for around 2 months and have been offerred another position that is far better. My current job has arranged a Z visa/residence permit (one of the new ones that is combined and in my passport), as well as a Foreign Experts Certificate.
My new job will arrange everything that is required, but my current boss told me that if I quit, I will have to hand back my Experts Certificate which means I won't be able to work in China, so I'd have to leave. She also said I wouldn't be able to apply for another Z visa. I get the feeling she might be trying to scare me into staying (they have a problem with employee retention - wonder why that could be!), but I don't know the actual procedure. Has anybody had any experience with this?
I'm confident my new work will do anything that is required (the management is American, plus they really want me to work for them), but I'm concerned my current boss will make things difficult. Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Adnil |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Changing jobs mid contract - visa & teaching expert |
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| Adnil wrote: |
I have been working in my current ESL job for around 2 months and have been offerred another position that is far better. My current job has arranged a Z visa/residence permit (one of the new ones that is combined and in my passport), as well as a Foreign Experts Certificate.
My new job will arrange everything that is required, but my current boss told me that if I quit, I will have to hand back my Experts Certificate which means I won't be able to work in China, so I'd have to leave. She also said I wouldn't be able to apply for another Z visa. I get the feeling she might be trying to scare me into staying (they have a problem with employee retention - wonder why that could be!), but I don't know the actual procedure. Has anybody had any experience with this?
I'm confident my new work will do anything that is required (the management is American, plus they really want me to work for them), but I'm concerned my current boss will make things difficult. Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Adnil |
Dear Adnil,
This is a situation that many of us have been through, although it is usually not that because the money was better. In most cases, a job change occurred because the working conditions were horrific. But let me answer your questions.
1. Yes, you will need to hand in your Foreign Expert's Certificate. That is the law. It belongs to the employer and not to you.
HOWEVER, and please read carefully, when you do hand in your Foreign Expert's Certificate, please have them prepare a letter on their official stationary, which letter should be stamped and signed, that says that on such-and-such a date you duly returned your Foreign Expert's Certificate to them. There is a 75% chance that you will need this letter, particularly if you are staying in-province.
No, your boss is outright lieing to you. If you have a letter stating that the previous Foreign Expert's Certificate was returned to the employer, you will have NO problem in obtaining a new one. None, whatsoever. If you do NOT have such a letter, your new employer MAY be able to obtain one for you, based on his or her "guanxi" and the kind disposition of the Education Department. In Shanghai, this could be dicey as they tend to be less lenient than elsewhere in Shanghai about the rules. Call it an overflux of foreigneritis at the Education Department in Shanghai.
2. Regarding the Z visa, the answer is yes, no and maybe, as you will see below.
If your new job is NOT within the Shanghai Administrative District, then your new employer will be able to obtain a new visa for you relatively easily, with only a minimum of paperwork. Even though you have a Z visa, if you go to work in a new province, under your circumstances, the employer has the possibility of treating your application as a "new" application and ignoring your previous work history. A savvy employer will know this. When the employer instructs the PSB to treat your application as a new application, your previous work history is vacated, and thus you are freed from the threats of your previous employer.
HOWEVER, if you are going to remain within the Shanghai Administrative District, then things change. A friend of mine that recently changed jobs the way you are contemplating doing in Shanghai was required to have a letter of release from his previous employer stating that he had left the school under satisfactory conditions, that he had returned all school property to the school, and that he had discharged all of his debts. When the new employer went to the Shanghai PSB, they point blank asked the new employer for this letter.
As you know from reading the posts on this site, things vary in China from one province-to-another. New rules governing the in-folio visa have come into effect in China but specific application has been left to the regional PSB offices. One example of this is that while extensions of tourist visas are often allowed, only for one month, in many provinces of China, in Shanghai they tend to be routinely denied.
So perhaps this does not answer your specific question but I hope that it will at least give you a general overview of what could happen. |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Who paid for your visa, you or the school? If it was the school, I suggest you offer to pay them back for all the money they have spent processing your visa. I would also offer to stay until they get a replacement teacher to take over your job. If you do these things, they may make leaving easier for you. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
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I don't find this sort of disloyalty to one's employer should be encouraged! Two months here, and already looking for a "better" deal? You will soon find yet a more "rewarding" one! You were hospitably sponsored, and you show your gratitude to your Chinese boss by being so greedy? He hasn't done anything wrong but you want to let him down? Can a foreign worker to that in your country??? I think nolt!
Until recently, FTs had to work their contract time before they could change jobs, and why should that not be so? Your students might want to have continuity in their classroom, your employer has spent a tidy wad of red banknotes in securing your services, and the PSB have entered you on their list of foreign residents. Changing jobs required - I hope still requires! - from the FT a release letter that you must get from your present employer. If he refuses this he does so with good and understandable reasons. |
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Adnil
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:26 am Post subject: Ok, ok! |
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It seems as though people think I'm just bailing on my current employer without any thought for them. While my new job is better than my current one, I wouldn't have looked for it if I hadn't been unhappy. I was misled about a number of things (namely the amount of travel, the pay and the hours), I was told I would be trained and wasn't, plus I have been lied to on a number of occasions. The latest occasion was in the instance I wrote about in my original post - she blatantly lied to scare me into staying. They haven't held up their end of the bargain, so I don't feel guilty about not completely meeting mine. I have adhered to the conditions of my contract (including the clause about giving 30 days notice of my resignation), so I'm doing the best I can by them.
I didn't want to post a rant about how awful my employer is - I just put the relevant info in because I needed some advice. Sorry if I sounded self-indulgent and irresponsible. The school wouldn't have a problem with teacher retention and continuity for the students if they treated their staff well. I'm not the first to have left because of the conditions. |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Ok, ok! |
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| Adnil wrote: |
It seems as though people think I'm just bailing on my current employer without any thought for them. While my new job is better than my current one, I wouldn't have looked for it if I hadn't been unhappy. I was misled about a number of things (namely the amount of travel, the pay and the hours), I was told I would be trained and wasn't, plus I have been lied to on a number of occasions. The latest occasion was in the instance I wrote about in my original post - she blatantly lied to scare me into staying. They haven't held up their end of the bargain, so I don't feel guilty about not completely meeting mine. I have adhered to the conditions of my contract (including the clause about giving 30 days notice of my resignation), so I'm doing the best I can by them.
I didn't want to post a rant about how awful my employer is - I just put the relevant info in because I needed some advice. Sorry if I sounded self-indulgent and irresponsible. The school wouldn't have a problem with teacher retention and continuity for the students if they treated their staff well. I'm not the first to have left because of the conditions. |
Dear Adnil,
I would like to echo some of what Roger writes. Additionally, as I know see you are in Shanghai, if you are GOING to stay in Shanghai, you will need two letters from your current employer : one attesting to the fact that your Foreign Expert Certificate was duly returned to the school and another letter stating that you have asked for early release of employment and that you have been HONORABLY released.
The Shanghai PSB have become more conservative than the regional PSBs, perhaps simply due ot the volume of foreigners that it handles.
As I said, if you leave Shanghai, you don't need anything. If you stay in Shanghai, however, you will need the two letters above. |
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