Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

My current residence permit expires on August 31st. When negotiating with my new school, I made sure to insist that they get my permit and my teaching certificate renewed before I went to Guangdong for my summer job on July 16th. Immediately after, I am to leave for the USA and will return to Shanghai on the 30th. You can see that I didn't want to cut things close.

The school agreed and, as we speak, they have my passport and have said they have already gotten my new teaching certificate. I've given them all the paperwork they need and we are still over 10 days away before I'm to leave Suzhou.

Yesterday I get an email from the International Office saying that the PSB won't renew a residence permit a full two months before the current one expires. Since I'll be returning on August 30th (a full 24 hours before it expires!), I'll still be able to "easily" return to China. They'll just run down to the PSB on the 31st and get things taken care of for me.

Of course, I balked at this idea and expressed my dismay and skepticism. She said many foreign teachers at their school have done the same thing. Really? I doubt that. We are to go to the PSB on Wednesday for an "interview" and I want to (politely) demand that, if they really won't renew it now, they need to type up an official letter that, basically, says I am free to return to China, they are aware my permit expires on the 31st and, if things aren't taken care of promptly, I should not be fined or, if fined, the school must pay the fines. Then, a contact name/number and an official signature, stamped with that "official" red stamp thingie.

But what can I do? If my school tells me this AND the PSB echoes this on Wednesday, I have to follow what they say, right?

*sigh!* Nothing is every easy in China!

[Roger]

What's a "teaching certficiate", and why is the PSB involved with it?

Your query as to why you cannot get a new visa before the old one expired is a non sequitur. This is common practice. They cancel old visas when they are about to expire - say up to a couple of weeks before expiry. BUt cancelling 2 months? That's never been done as far as I know, and why should they?
I see your dilemma, but you are expected to use up your time in China, not go abroad. THis is time your employer had to convince the authorities you would be working here.

[tofuman]

Kev,

It seems to me that you contributed to this situation by scheduling a flight before you knew how things would turn out with your visa. I really do not trust these folks when it comes to these things, not because of malice on their part, but because unexpected things do happen. I might think the same in the States. There are often foul ups.

I recently did some things with my visa that were, while totally reasonable and ethical, outside the scope of normalcy. The PSB graciously complied. But I had multiple contingency plans in case things did not work out. You have left little wiggle room for yourself.

You are putting your school in an uncomfortable position. Really, why should they be responsible for your tight schedule. There could be other problems that would delay your flight for a day.

Making demands on the PSB because your own actions have put you in a tight spot requires hubris, to say the least. It might cause some difficulties that you would rather avoid.


Short of changing your return date, I'm not sure what realistic choices you have. I'd be very careful about asking the PSB to stick its neck out for you, though.

[kev7161]

Okay, first Roger:

FOREIGN EXPERTS CERTIFICATE: the little red book that says you are an "expert" and you can teach in China. I didn't say the PSB had anything to do with this. I just said the school had already gotten that document for me. Sorry I wasn't clearer for you and called it a "teaching certificate". I'll try to be more crystal in the future.

Tofuman:

No "hubris" on my part. Before I booked the ticket, the school agreed to get everything renewed for me. I asked these questions (and many others) and got written (emailed) assurances from them. I did my part by giving them my passport when I visited here in person and asked the questions all over again, giving them letters of reference, and all the other documents they wanted. By the way, it's not my VISA that is expiring on August 31st. That expired long ago. It's my RESIDENCE PERMIT that expires on August 31st. If "other teachers" have gotten their permit a day before their previous one expired and this is "normal", then she should have known to tell me that and getting this done for me in July was NOT "normal".

I didn't put the school into any position, they put themselves in it. I was very clear on my requests and I waited for their response before signing a contract and booking a plane flight. I didn't "cut things close" because I had (supposedly) made arrangements already. I'm not an idiot; I know "the way things are" around here, but at some point one has to hope? believe? have faith in? that someone, somewhere will get things done in a calm, orderly way and not wait until the last minute.

You are quick to defend this school (not even knowing which school by the way) - - I wonder why that is? This may be a wonderful school to teach in but I won't know until September. However, this is the same sort of Chinese bureaucractic BS that we all have to deal with on a daily basis, it seems. Don't jump down my throat because I have to count on schools being upfront and honest.

Regardless, my current Residence Permit DOES allow me to return on the 30th of August and I'll have my little red book (FEC, Roger) with me as well and the school WILL give me a letter of invitation in case I need to show something like that. As for the PSB - I'm going to make the request (maybe "demand" was too harsh), hopefully they'll comply. My last school screwed up my (and most everyone else's) visa/permit thing last year and I paid nary a red jiao after it expired. If there was a fine, the school took care of it.

[tofuman]

Kev, I originally prefaced my message with a plea not to interpret my post as an attack. Then, after writing it, I went to delete it, figuring I should stay out of it because I wasn't completely clear on exactly what happened. When I tried to delete, my system was down and now, a half hour later, it is working. So I'll begin by apologizing.

I have to remind myself that I'm out of the ESL business. I've decided that the ESL business in China is like one huge, toxic corporation, the mother of all dysfunctional workplaces.

Bosses from hell, moronic students, dodgy administrations. Even the "colleagues" are like programmed automatons, doing whatever their administrators say. "Be nice to the FT." They are all smiles. "Bad FT." They won't make eye contact and avoid you in the market. Totally superficial. Other FTs? Well, you've met some. You decide.

Your problems are no longer my problems, at least not tonight. I may be back.

Good luck

[clomper]

Kev,

I had the same problem with you. My visa and res. permit will expire on Aug. 24... I'm going home for the summer holidays and won't be back till the 28.

The first time we went to the PSB, it was still 2 months before everything expire. They said they can't renew it coz the expiry date is more than 2 months. We returned when it was less than 2 months and brought my FEC and new health certificate.. I got it the same day.

Claudine

[kev7161]

If it weren't for the money this coming term, I'd be joining you, Tofuman, in the ex-ESL club.

There are "newbies" that come onto this forum and seem to ask some awfully naive questions and don't seem to well prepared for their stint in China. Some I've been, sadly, condescending to and others I've tried to help to the best of my abilities.

But even we "exprienced" old horses still can only go so far and do so much before we have to leave it in other people's hands. That is my situation. I did as much as I knew how to do. I've learned (tried to at least) from past experiences and tried to cover all my bases. Sometimes that's all we can do. If I have border troubles come August 30th, so be it - - I'll try to make sure the school sends me my belongings when I have to turn around and go home (HA! That'll happen.). I'm kind of putting the cart before the horse. Things may work out just fine. Wait, what am I saying? This is China after all.

[profile]

I think that if both the school and the PSB say it can be done in a day, there's a good chance it can. Could you ask to be put in touch with one or more of the other teachers who have done this, just to "put your mind at rest" ?

Or you could make your own application from the US if you'd feel more secure. ( I understand that's possible - can somebody confirm ?)

Isn't your overall feeling about the school good ? It seems you've been careful in your choice so I'd actually suggest you give them the benefit of the doubt, especially if the PSB concurs.

[Alex_P]

[kev7161]

Passport expires 2010
I will arrive at 6:15pm August 30th, the company will go to PSB the following day.
I have my new Foreign Experts Certificate
Medical will be given on Wednesday (July 6th)

I tell you, I've tried to cover all bases - - hope it works out!

[Roger]

Alex has given you the most competent answer, it seems.

My newest visa/resident's permit (it's no longer called a 'visa') was done within 24 hours because the university had registered me last year. Renewing a visa (resident's permit) is easier than obtaining one for a total newcomer.

Also, I didn't have to pass a medical check-up this time; the old exam results were deemed still valid.

I can still imagine that you will face some hard time convincing the Immigration folks that you are going to be a bona fide visitor/resident in China since your right to stay expires on the day of your arrival.
It might be better to fly in a day before, or get an extension from a consulate. That would take an extra passport page, though. However, I do not know whether they can extend a resident's permit from abroad (consulate)!

[Alex_P]

[kev7161]

Updates and a new wrinkle:

1. Went to the PSB last week with my liason. I had my health certificate from TWO YEARS AGO. I was told that, since I've been in-country for at least 3 months (it's true, I returned from Thailand on Feb. 7th), I would not need another health exam. (!!!???)

2. When she made yet another polite request to get my residence permit changed/updated, the lady at the desk laughed at her (and me?) and THREW my passport back at her saying, "Impossible!" (it struck me as quite rude and unprofessional)

3. I never received an "interview" at the PSB, as I was told I would, so I couldn't make my request for a letter of explanation should there be problems at Pudong come August 30th. My school has promised me one this week. That'll have to be enough.

My new wrinkle: My residence permit is from Hangzhou. We've discussed before that if you visit a friend for a few days you should march down to the local PSB and get a temporary residence permit. Also, if you stay in a hotel, they too issue a temp. RP. So, I have moved to Suzhou, yet my residence permit won't be renewed/changed until August 30th! I was not given nor offered a temporary residence permit. If the school received one, they didn't mention it to me nor give me a copy. I'm "assuming" they don't have one. So am I living in Suzhou illegally with the knowledge of the PSB that I am doing so? What happens when I book on down to Guangzhou in a few days? I'll be staying at the school where I'll be teaching - - do I need to get another temp. residence permit? I don't foresee getting into any sort of trouble, but who knows what could happen?