Job Discussion Forums

[Vancouver Jim]

Canilx did indeed close and it was in Friday's paper here in Shanghai.

Any of these schools including WEB are shakey at best. The other ones (other than Wall St) don't pay very well and usually are not very professional. I keep hearing (on this site) Wall St is in difficulty and I would love to get a PM from someone there and get some TANGIBLE FEEDBACK. As far as I know they don't have any problems in SH and have had large ads advertising for staff all over China. I would say WEB and WSI are the best of a bad lot.

This is a poorly-run industry worldwide and that is one of the hazards of being an ESL teacher. Schools/staff are usually undercapitalized, have no R and D, poor HR, offer little training, are poorly managed, are rife with liars, and know little about business. I speak from 10 plus years experience in several countries and 2 years here.

China, and the industry, have low standards and don't attract very high quality teachers.

However you can work all this to your advantage; a given ESLer needs to figure that out for his/herself and go from there.

I like China nonetheless and I enjoy being a career ESLer. If you are a serious career ESLer I will be happy to hear from you and network. Professional teachers can benefit from working together and that is something this industry lacks. The ESL industry has great potential and may always have!

[ich bin ein laowai]

How about Berlitz?I always hear about Wall street,Canix,Web but never Berlitz.

[chengdude]

The Berlitz business model is substantially different from the other schools in question. Their bread and butter is corporate training and that is why their 4 schools are located in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Shenyang. Shenyang surprised me a bit, but then again I've never been there...I imagine there must be some pretty good company pickin's, though.

[edwinagirl]

I think it's interesting that we rarely hear from FTs at Wall Street, Web, or, for that matter, Berlitz. Are they a different kid of FT? One problem may be the fact that they don't stay long at places like Wall Street. In Beijing there is a high churn rate.

I agree with Vancouver Jim that we really need to hear tangible information from teachers there, rather than just listening to me, for example! (We all have our bias, no doubt.)

In my experience, however, it's the Chinese managers you need to speak to in order to get a real picture of what's going on. As FTs we can be left completely out of the picture regarding the business side of things and to a large extent, even how the students are reacting to the training. Students are more likely to tell the staff than the teachers directly if they have a complaint. (Not all complaints concern the teachers!) Obviously if the FT has good Chinese and a lot of experience it is possible to connect on that level, but most teachers don't.

In the same way, the teachers can be oblivious to the business realities of a given school, and ultimately, whether it is profitable or not. I would argue that this is relevant in this context because there is a real question as to whether or not the Wall Street approach will implode, as it did in Spain and other places. (Wall Street global lost 20 million dollars last year.)

Either way, I'd stil llike to hear from Wall Street teachers.

[Vancouver Jim]

I have one year full-time experience with Web here in SH, and have worked as a Head Foreign Teacher (HFT) and DOS. I make it my business to probe the students and to keep an eye on the business side. I am one of those rare FTs with both extensive business and teaching experience and thus capable of relating to both sides of the business. In my opinion this is both a successful business and educational model. If a given student works hard I have seen them do very well. You get what you pay for and in China you need to pay for quality.

Kai En and LEC also seem to be relatively strong here however I don't know what system they use; I assume it's a conventional 1 teacher, meet Mon and Wed type of model. I understand the pay is lower and they have a higher turnover than Web or WSI.

Web and WSI pay very well (the best of private lang mills) and that is part of their success in getting good people. They assess skill and experience and hire mature serious people in addition to the usual young good-looking sorts.

Realistically though remember you are in China (or reading this and thinking of coming here) and anything can and will happen and things change quickly. This is yet another reason for serious career pros to network. Overall it's a rapidly-growing industry and lots of opportunites, but like any business there are risks. One of the great things is you don't need a degree. (A highly debated topic) Skill and experience rule the day, a TEFL/TESOL is almost a must, a business background a great asset, and how you sell yourself is essential. The industry will get better and the possibilities are endless.