Job Discussion Forums

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

If my school could do things professionally, I would love. 12 hours, "decent" pay. Too bad they don't understand promise or mutual good faith.

12 hours is considered a normal course load for a Chinese college teachers. Okay, 14 is okay. 18 is very high, and I don't believe a good dedicated teacher will teach as well teaching 18 hours (Yes, last year I taught at least 30 per week)

Okay, the point. I have noticed / heard from others that many colleges are asking for 20, 22 or even more hours. What gives? I mean, I know I am in Henan, the undebelly of China, but is it happening elsewhere.

Beijing says 12 hours is normal. If I have my math right, schools get reimbursed over 30,000 RMB for each foreign teacher. Are they afraid that with SARS they won't get enough teachers, and want us to work more?

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

I checked with my alter ego Elsie, (remember dear Elsie? "All us cows do our best for Jerseymaid, Elsie!) and she claims that the Minister of Education officially says that 9 hours is the norm for English teachers at all levels of the Chinese educational system. Due to a shortage of qualified teachers they are often required to teach much more.

So by Chinese logic, they are just complimenting you by asking you to teach more hours. You are considered competent!

But Elsie is not happy with you concerning your crack about "milking" us. Now the Preacher is warning you that if you do not clean up your language ESL Guru or Dragon are going to come back with NOYB and then even God will not be able to protect you.

GONZALVESB · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 52

Well, I also think that the Chinese wants to get as much out of us as possible. I am working 22 hours per week. I have now applied for a position with another school that is asking for 20 hours per week. How many people are out there who are only working for 12-18 hours per week?

Remember my question about paying the school US$500 as a good faith deposit? Well, this appears in some document. I have a copy of the document but unfortunately do not know how to paste or attach it. The document is called 'Reference Sample of Appendix of Standard Work Contract for Foreign Cultural and Educational Experts. They also refer to the Contract as no. 1001'. Could anybody let me know if they have ever seen such a document. I really think the Chinese people are only thinking of what they can get out of us and then we have to pay them on top of it to make sure that we stay 'put' no matter how bad we are being treated. Not only do they not want to lose face but also they don't want to suffer any financial losses either.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I can imagine that the SARS thing gives some of the schools an extra incentive to squeeze extra time out of some of us, though this should come with extra remuneration.

In my case, I found myself hired on a part-time basis by a new school. I only work afternoons and get half the salary that the former jobholder received. He got double, but he also put in more time than me: From 9 to 12 and from 2:30 p.m. to 5:30 = 6 hours, whereas I come at 3 and leave at 5:10.
And the best of all: Today I received my first pay for the last ten days. Initially, they wanted to divide my monthly pay by 30 days, then multiply by ten; I said I do not work on weekends, so that makes it at least 8 days fewer than they wanted to base their calculation on; they made one telephone enquiry and gave in with no further ado: I received around 50 RMB more per afternoon than they wanted to give me.

yaco · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 473

It is good to see that an 'old hand' such as Roger, is battling to receive correct remuneration.

It restores my faith in humanity.

Owen · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:14 am Post subject:

The government school system is still pretty much the old communist thinking. The concept of supply and demand doesn't apply. A shortage of teachers doesn't mean you pay more to attract teachers, it means that you just require teachers to work more for the same pay. Remember that they are mostly experienced at dealing with the Chinese national teachers who they basically treat as slaves.

I have also noticed that more schools are now demanding 20+ hours a week for the same low pay. Personally, I get better than the Provincial official pay scale and am contract for up to 16 hours but have never taught more than 14 and have been treated well. That is why I decided to stay where I am.

It will be interesting to see how things actually shake out. Our school is having no problems recruiting teachers for the next semester. Question is will they actually show up and will they stay when SARS reappears this winter?

Marvin · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 2

Interesting to read your posting on hours versus provincial pay. If you are contracted to work 16 hours and you only ever work 14, do you still get paid for the 16 hours.
Secondly, what is the provincial pay for Liaoning cos I was thinking about coming up there myself. Does your school offer more than 16 hours a week. So if there any vacancies going I would be extremely interested. Sars or no Sars

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Public schools pay according to national stipulations. Minimum pay has for years been set at 2200 RMB. This typically is for a workload of between 12 to 16 periods. Interestingly, I have only seen offers of 2200 to 2500 in recent months or the last one year! However, most schools top it up to 3000 and more. The actual number of periods a week does not matter a lot. SOmetimes, a class gets cancelled, but your pay stays the same.
In Liaoning, pay generally is not in the high-end of the scale. A college there has contacted me, offering 3500. I declined, but if anybody is interested I would like to point them to that school as I fancy it is a friendly one. I was promised airconditioning with heating (I can't stand the Sibwerian cold of Manchuria in winter!).

And, do not forget public schools usually hire you for twelve months although they pay you for ten months only - summer recess is travelling time!

Owen · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:10 pm Post subject:

Assuming you have a Bachelors, Liaoning standard is currently 3500/month.

I get full pay even when I was teaching 12 hours, but that also has to do with guanxi. I get along very well with the FAO and the students give me good reviews. Also help Chinese teachers with a smile when asked. Also, since my wife is Chinese, I rarely bother the FAO for anything. We take care of ourselves.

I am not sure if they still have any openings here, but I can ask. Only one teacher did not return this year. Go to www.chinatefl.com and look in Liaoning. You will find a number of openings at universities. The Normal University is hiring anybody they can get right now. They are just north of the main city but still on a main bus route and they have a really nice, new campus.

One reason I stayed here is that I am living off campus and hence did not get restricted to campus when all the students were quarantined. They were going to move the foreign teachers onto campus next semester and we all told them "no way". Most universities here have you housed inside the campus walls.