Job Discussion Forums

[Babala]

I just heard that all the Shanghai Canilx schools shut down yesterday. Does anyone have any information about this?

[clark.w.griswald]

Edwinagirl spoke about this situation in some earlier posts:

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=25910&highlight=canilx

It seems that what she predicted may have come true.

[Babala]

The info that I have heard is that Canilix had no money to pay the rent or the salaries. I know one other poster mentioned something about this specific situation. Has anyone in Shanghai been talking about this? I wonder how many FT's were effected?

[edwinagirl]

Canilx closed their last school this week as i predicted. The boss claimed for weeks that he wouldn't do that. He is owed a lot of money from another business that he owns. This is why I have such a low opinion of management in China. This is what Chinese cowboys look like.

The Web guys are no better. The only thing that keeps them going is the franchising in other cities, but this will catch up with them, and maybe before not too long. Just look a the unmitigated disaster that franchising has been for EF - internal wars, embezzlement, and legal nightmares. Meanwhile, it's well known that Wall Street are struggling. They're bankrupt everywhere else in the world, so why not China?

This development may finally bring this approach to TEFL into disrepute. One-year, up-front tuition is too much of a temptation for these cowboys and it is systematically abused.

There weren't that many teachers working at Canilx, because the approach is to dispense with teachers in favor of software. Most of them knew it was coming.

I have inside contacts to these organizations. I can't tell you how, but I do. This won't be the last one to close, I can assure you. You have been warned.

[Babala]

edwinagirl,
I am interested in the "inside information" you have on these organizations. Is it just Wallstreet or does this also include Web and Canilx? I really know very little about the Wallstreet chain. How many Wallstreets are there is China? Are they in fact in trouble?

[edwinagirl]

Babala,

I've worked for Wall Street, EF and other organizations, mostly as a manager, rather than as a teacher. My fiance is also a manager in the industry. We've been able to build up a network of Chinese friends who worked for the organizations, here and in Shanghai. Some of the good managers stay within the industry but move from school to school. They tend to stay in touch, and they are mainly women.

My masters thesis (and possibly a book) is on the various approaches to TEFL, from both a business and an academic perspective. I am a firm believer in the idea of teaching, yes, teaching.

I think the Wall Street model is a magificent business edifice that conceals an academic dead-end (forgive the mixed metaphor). It is about making money, which is OK, but I'm afraid the teaching/learning is often ignored because of the way the method is set up. The copycats like Web and Canilx, learned the greed without ever grasping that there should be an academic foundation to the method. At the risk of sounding arrogant, it shocks me that people cannot see this - many people who regard themselves as teachers lack the basic training in proper TEFL to be able to distinguish this fact, so this is a bad reflection on these teachers, these "willing accomplices".

Just my opinion, and BTW, my prediction of an implosion of the approach still holds. Even the disastrous EF will outlive them!

[gulam2]

Edwinagirl.
I worked for a Web franchise (It was fairly Independent and I was Dean).
I felt Academically we made a lot of progress with a few students. (and with the Chinese teachers)
Many students were there for other reasons - mostly social or status.
(at that time it was Auralog - the French system - they switched to Dyned a US system which I did not like. Auralog is fairly successful in Europe I beleive). I looked at the system very closely academically and managerially. However as is often the case the marketing (lies,lies, lies) and the Business Management - Profit and Loss Accounts; Balance Sheets (ha ha ha ha)
were unbeleivably bad.
I am going to be very interested in your book or even your masters disortation. Please keep in touch with me

[Babala]

edwinagirl, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I do see the benefits of this type of learning center (and I do consider myself a serious teacher also). Also could you tell me how many Wallstreets there are in China, I am curious to know.

gulam2, If you don't mind saying either here ot through PM, which Web did you work at? What exactly do you mean that you were the dean? Canilx has head teacher/DOS position but Web schools as far as I know, do not.

[gulam2]

It was called Manhattan in Yiwu. I was Dean, in charge of the teachers and academia. It is now called Web Yiwu but at that time it was semi-independent.

[Babala]

Cheers gulam2, I didn't realize they had opened a new one there.

[edwinagirl]

Babala,

I don't know exactly how many Wall Streets there are now in China. They have branches in Beijing, Shanghai, and HK. I have contacts in Shanghai and Beijing. These are sales people/managers who know about their own branches, not people with access to the data from every branch. Why do you ask? Why not check on their website?

[Babala]

edwinagirl,

Just out of curiousity. I have heard alot about the Wallstreet chain and I was curious if they were all over China. I am only familiar with the Shanghai and Beijing branches of the school. I will check out their website, thanks

[struelle]

On the topic of educational research, I hinted in another thread about how we're starving for this when it comes to FTs in China. This would also apply to how schools are run, business models, and teacher recruitment, etc.

Until that, there is such a tremendous data void of EFL research in China where we don't really know what is going on and we have to rely on guesses, personal experience, and 'inside information'.

The potential for research would be huge. This could open up a whole new world, but a few questions to show you what I mean:

1) What causes 'sudden closures' of schools like Canilx et. al and how can they be prevented?
2) What criteria do recruiters of such schools use to hire FTs?
3) Why do FTs come to China and teach?
4) What is the future of EFL in China?

Obviously these are huge questions and many threads have been made about them before. While not needing to answer them, my point is that there is a huge data void of research on these questions, so we rely on other things like experience, etc.

Steve

[gulam2]

I think this is a very good idea.
Much more information is needed for teahers looking for jobs in China.
There are so many bad schools and companies such as My English World in Tongliao. If somoene can do the research (Maybe for a Masters or a PHD or even a book) On the different aspects: types of schools, qualifications required, reasons why teachers come to CHina, Chinese teaching culture, Expectations and disappointments, How to find a job, How not to find a job. how to avoid having to complain (Chinese see complaining totally different ftrom Westerners - Enlightened Westerners see complaining as a way of improving quality, Chinese see complaining as insulting.) These cultural differences could be researched.
What a good idea to write a book about all these aspects.
If anyone is actually doing this (apart from edwinagirl) please pm me.

[edwinagirl]

Babala,

I think the Wall Street approach can only work in the richest cities where they can target enough wealthy individuals and lots of corporations.

It appears to me that Wall Street target people who are as interested in face as in training. This often comes in the form of sponsorship by big companies for the senior staff. These people are often too busy to actually do much study, which is good for Wall Street. It is also appealing to the HR managers (most of whom are clueless in China) who can use the data from the learners' study history (activities are recorded on their software) to look scientific and impress their bosses. (The problem is that these are proprietary and completely arbitrary standards that do not say much about communicative ability.)

The second demographic is the rich and clueless individual. I recently spoke to one middle-aged lady (in Chinese) who has just signed up with her husband for a second year at Wall Street. She has spent 60k but she couldn't speak English to save her life. She was unwilling to comment on the effectiveness of the method because (a) she has just spent 60k and doesn't want to look like a fool, (b) she probably blames herself rather than the method, because her counselor keeps telling her she is not putting in enough time on the software (note that he doesn't tell her to spend more time with teachers, because it is more expensive from Wall Street's point of view).

So, this can only work in very large cities with people who are willing to pay lots of cash up front and pay for face as well as training. There is nothing wrong with this - it's the same with all luxury brands. I must admit that Wall Street are good at marketing and sales - they manage to target these people effectively. Two points seem to me important, however: 1. there is limited scope for expansion 2. they have overestimated the size of the target demographic in Shanghai and Beijing and are finding it difficult to keep up the sales they did in the past.

This is why I see trouble ahead for the method.