Job Discussion Forums

[rolander]

Hiya,

My wife and I are interested in relocating to anywhere in Asia in view of attaining a decent standard of living via TEFL, with enough left over to tide something away for our eventual return (?) to Canada. Big glitch in any otherwise safe bet (judging from what I've read on these boards): we have a 2 year old boy. We both believe that a young child forms the strongest bonds to a parent during the first few years, so my wife would remain home with him (as well, she was educated in Germany, so I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to get a TEFL job anyway).

My stats: very soon to B.A (or not to B.A?). So here's my question: would I be able to earn well enough to have a moderate life with the fam (little to no drinking; sedate nightlight (i.e, books, movies, playing with junior)), and a mentionable amount of money. Also, same question with a) a CELT tacked on; b) a Masters--English lit.--tacked on; c) both

Any and all information would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Rol

[Glenski]

[rolander]

Thanks for that extraordinarily depressing information, Glenski. Japan's a single person's game, I guess. I thought things would be less than lavish, but I didn't know that supporting a family on a single income would be impossible or close to it. I'd read that some of the salaries there could mature to a respectable level at least with some time and decent qualifications (in respect of which: yeah, I meant I'm getting my bottom-feeding B.A soon).

Do you (or anyone out there) know if the same holds true for other Asian countries? I've read many of the posts on this website, so I have a general idea; but I thought that maybe some recent, positive developments salary/cost-of-living ratio-wise would make our dreams more than mental misting. Korea?

In any case, thanks again for the feedback.

Rol

[schwa]

Korea could work.

Standard entry-level wage is about 2 million won (about $2200 cdn a month), with negligible taxes & free housing -- I bet you could bank at least a quarter of that quite easily.

Finding a job that offers spacious enough housing will pose an extra hurdle, but not insurmountable. Maybe not in Seoul, where space is at a premium, but a smaller city will be cleaner & calmer anyway & maybe more suitable for a toddler.

With your BA you could land a job in a hagwon (private academy) or a public school. Advantages & drawbacks to both -- check the discussions on dave's Korea board. Most bosses won't have any issue with you having a wife & child along & they can get dependant visas easily. You'll get a free ticket over but you'll have to pay for your family yourself of course.

CELTA would probably help you as a teacher but isnt required & wont improve your wage. My MA in lit has helped me move up but it didnt have much impact on my first position here.

Living in Korea has its challenges but in my experience lots of pleasant features too. If you guys are flexible & up for adventure you could have a great time.

But do it smart. Research exhaustively & dont sign anything without credible reassurance from teachers (not recruiters) already on the ground.

[Glenski]

[rolander]

Schwa,

Thanks for the reply. Talk about a booster. Adventure and the possibility of banking even a pasty-faced fiver per month sits better than well with us. Money is not our primary motivator, though we're hoping to avoid having to rob a local of his gruel to feed our child. 'Tis the wanderlust; that's the thing.

Living in a smaller place would also appeal to us over Seoul. I've read some unwholesome things about the pollution over there, and we're a little concerned about the kid. So, the cleaner the better. Also, our nightlife consists of prolonged conversations about meaningless topics that nonetheless help us feel that we've done something meaningful; we've little need for bars/clubs/museums. As long as English books are plentiful and cheap, we'll be okay (guess why I'm laughing now right now).

Yeah, so thanks again. Your last bit of advice was especially good. "Dave's" has given me a pretty good idea about the kinds of shifty practices common amongst the hagwon owners. Nonetheless, Korea is at the top of our tentative list.

Cheers, Rol



Glenski,

No offence taken. I know I'm parchment poor. I was interested to hear that you're raising a family there on your salary alone. I guess you've put in your time...and have a Phd? Do you mind if I ask where you work and how, in a general way, you manage things?

My information had a Japanese TEFL post starting at around 44 grand per annum. In Canada, if the tax rate were not 99% (and I think Japan's is very low?), I know we could manage to save a little and not suffer unduly. At the same time, I know that any medium-sized city in Japan is likely more expensive than its equivalent here. But I wasn't sure if the difference was so great as to make an attempt at Japan unfeasible. You're giving me the impression that it is, and I've no reason to believe otherwise in the absence of other informations contradicting you (I get the impression there won't be). I expected to start at the bottom, but I didn't know if that bottom was rosy-cheeked and ample, like Rosy O'Donnell's, or skimpy and withered, like someone whose rump is skimpy and withered (If they payed in Japan for mastering the failed metaphor, I'd be rolling in it).

And then he said: The daycare angle wouldn't have concerned us much now because the child is still quite young (2), and we really aren't sure how long we would want to remain. Were it only a year or two, fine. If we decided to stay longer, then we'd have to decide between an English school and home-training. We're not yearning to do the latter, but I imagine that we could do at least as well as the inept and oppressive efforts that pass for public education in many places (not the teacher's fault). So that particular expense might be averted for at least some years.

Thanks, Glenski.

Rol

[rolander]

Glenski, I meant to ask:

Was your child born outside of Japan? I'm curious about the challenges and any qualms that surface when transplanting a child from his/her culture. With us, there's a small but pervasive element of guilt about taking junior to a place where medical care is probably less impressive than here; and where his ethnicity will cause him to stand out. Any thoughts would be welcomed.

Cheers,
Rol

[rolander]

Forgot to ask this in my first post: would you be able to tell me some of the challenges you've faced while in Korea? I don't expect an exhaustive list--but maybe you can tell me what comes to mind immediately.

Rol

[PAULH]

[Glenski]

[rolander]

Thank you Glenski and Paulh for a more detailed understanding of what's involved in Japan for someone in my situation.

Glenski, I'm not concerned about the development of a language barrier between our son and me: we would teach him english, and my wife and I are both quick studies. Surely anyone with enough determination and a triple digit IQ can learn a language passably well within a reasonable amount of time, especially if immersed in the culture.

The money aspect disconcerts, but it does seem possible; you two are living proof of that. At the same time, we don't favour a massive struggle. That's one of things we're trying to leave behind. From what I've gathered, Japan would be at best very difficult (long hours, tight budget) and at worst hardly possible. I suppose that you two are advantaged in having married a local insofar as she helped avoid certain pitfalls specific to the culture/society. So, for the time being we've scratched off Japan as an option.

Thank you Glenski, schwa and Paulh for the time and hardwon advice.

Rol

[The Purple Rose]

Have you tried the Government run programme called EPIK (English Programme in Korea, or something). It is in connection with the state school system. I met someone who is here on EPIK with his wife and small child (3 years old) and loving it. Also, German may be in demand. You never know. Your wife could perhaps take privates. I understand that the highest pay with EPIK is 2,200,000 plus free accomodation that can be a two bedroom apartment, though my friend who is here on the EPIK programme is in a tiny little bedsit. Because you have a family you may get the two bedroom apartment deal. You can always state that that is a condition of your accepting a contract. Then kick up a (nice and polite) fuss if you don't get it. Beware of EPIK, though, as I have encountered many EPIK people who are lured here from Canada, the States, Australia, NZ, etc on a contract that says they will be teaching mostly adults (training teachers) and end up teaching five year olds and elementary school kids, are told they will be classroom assistants and then are left to design all the programmes from scratch with often no or very few resources and totally left to it. A number leave before their contract expires. However, if the reality rather than the what the contract states is your cup of tea (i.e. you like working with kids and designing your own programmes of work), it shouldn't worry you. All I know is that you can go the the EPIK website (sorry, don't know the name of it, but if you can't find it, I can always ask my friend) to contact them.

[rolander]

Hi, Purple Rose,

EPIK, eh? (yeah, funny thing, Canadians really do say "eh" a lot. I think it is meant to soften the blow of a direct demand. For instance, "Pass the salt, eh?" is smoother than "Pass the salt!" (American); "Pass the bloody salt!" (British); "Salz, schnell, schnell!" (German); people think it makes us sound rubbarbish....hm). Bad stereotypes aside, sounds interesting. I'm curious about the German-in-demand angle. I wasn't aware of that. Were it true, good tidings for us. The accomodation would be a huge factor, a make-it-or-break deal. We're living in a small two bedroom right now, and we find it less than comfortable given the energy level of junior. If I was offered employment in Korea, and part of the contract included accomodation, I'm wondering if they wouldn't be willing to convert that benefit into the supplementation of accomodation privately obtained.

As for a misleading contract: as long as they held to the agreed upon salary and hours aspect of the contract, I don't think I'd be upset. From what I've read the wee ones can be nightmarish...but I have precious little experience teaching, and it wouldn't seem right of me to be choosy about the kinds of pupils I'd teach at this stage. I might think differently after a year, but by then I think I would have earned the right to be a bit more selective. Nor would I mind designing the programmes; that might even be fun, as long as it didn't increase the workload by, say, over 30%.
Yah, I'm flexible for now.

Thanks for the info, Purple Rose. I think I'm going to address future posts to the Korean board, since that's where I seem to be heading...Europe would be our first choice, but the salary levels seem to carry no transnational weight, so we've more or less dropped any hope of staying there.

Rol

[Glenski]

[rolander]

You should still be concerned. Working a 40-hour week drains you here, so coming home to a spouse and child does not give you time to study the language appropriately, no matter how quick a study you are. If one of you stays home (not feasible economically, as I see it in the beginning), that person has more time to study, but not much more. I know what it's like handling a 2-year-old at home.

Regardless, best of luck in whatever you find.[quote]


I see your point. It's would be manageable but straining. You're implied comment about a 2-year-old at home is correct. Ours thinks its funny to run away when we tell him to "come here", and even funnier to watch our faces while he spills a full glass of milk onto the carpet...he actually does that: he looks at use while he's doing it and laughs. I digress.

Thanks for the luck. I hope my new employer, whomever s/he may be, is as well-wishing.

Rol