Job Discussion Forums

level · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 34

If a sign a one year contract and leave after a term would I have to leave China immediately? I want to work for one term then travel for about 4 weeks, including Tibet. Would breaking a contract cause me problems?

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Volodiya · Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:29 am Post subject:

To the readers, please have a look at this, first:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=278115&highlight=#278115

Level, will you get a grip? Why all this mucking about with teaching English when what you probably really need/want is a vacation?

You're not being fair to yourself, your potential employer, or your potential students, with this low level of commitment- which seems to be getting lower with each new post from you.

Plan a nice trip for yourself, and forget about this dabbling in teaching.

You are more likely to have a negative experience, and make life harder for those who take it seriously, than anything else.

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

I completely agree with tw and Volodiya. Why not just come to China and travel? It doesn't sound like you want to teach.

Chris_Crossley

Try and imagine what it would be like if some foreigner came to your home country and approached your company. He or she says that they will agree to sign a contract for about six months, and they do so. After five months, they disappear for no reason or else say they want to resign. For you, this is totally out of the blue.

You become suspicious and then ask around, perhaps surreptitiously, to determine the real reason, because, as far as you're concerned, this employee has had no real reason to want to leave suddenly (e.g., no family emergency back home) and has been a good worker. You then find out from a friend of theirs that, right from the start, their plan was just to do the minimum to save enough money and then bug out to go travelling.

How would that make YOU feel? You would feel justifiably peeved, realising that you had taken on someone of the backpacker mentality.

Try and see things from the employer's point of view. As far as the employer is concerned, such behaviour means that you regard them as cheap and this will only reinforce any stereotypes that any employers might have about foreigners just coming overseas pretending to want to work when all they really want to do is have a good time.

If you were an employer and found out that you had hired someone of that mentality, I think that you would feel pretty aggrieved and probably not want to hire any foreigner again on the off chance that the next one might be like that. Such conduct is unprofessional, and might just lead to employers closing the doors on innocent would-be employees when those doors should be open.

Just think about it, yeah?

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Sadly, Babala and Chris_Crossley, we all know that Level isn't the first and only one who intends on using teaching as means of getting into China to "have fun", and she definitely won't be the last one (no flaming intended Level).

My first employer went through 6 FT's in the term I taught there. Two did just that -- they taught for a couple weeks (or a month at most) and left (probably did a run). Some students knew right from the beginning what their motive for going to China was when one of them pulled out a map and asked students to locate famous tourism destinations in China, and giving instructions on how to go there.

Any wonder why more and more employers now have such harsh terms and conditions in their contracts? While we can argue that they are being unfair, we also have to be in their shoe to understand the fact that they are trying to protect the time and money (FEC and RPF) they invested in getting their FT's.

SimonM · Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 1835 Location: Toronto, Ontario

level · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 34

I totally deserve all those comments. You're right - it is out of order to walk on a contract. I was thinking about it in terms of the work background I have where, with notice, that would be acceptable. I don't want to just go travelling. I've done that before and you don't really get to grips with a country that way. I really want to experience living and working in a new place and have long intended to teach abroad. I also don't need to teach for the money. One of my other lines of enquiry is NGO/voluntary work in China. I guess I'm just trying to get a feel for what it's like out there and typing a quick, ill thought out question is a pretty stupid way of alienating the people who have been most helpful in this process - Sorry.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

go with the flow · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 18

Go for the six month contract. I did that, finished a month early, and then got the university to arrange a tourist visa for July (not overly expensive although I forget the exact price) since the residence permit ends with the contract. So everyone was happy - I fulfilled my contract, received an invitation to return to the job at any time, and got to travel quite a bit. Now I'm looking forward to going home quite satisfied with my small China experience.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I do not know if your putative employer thinks you are adequately qualified for you prospective job; but he surely is investing money in hiring a FT, and if you happen to be the lucky guy you should be upfront about your personal agenda!

Getting an employer to officially sponsor you is no small favour, buddy! To lose a teacher one has gone through the bureaucratic hoops of inviting officially is a major setback. Your employer may lose his standing with the authorities - they might simply refuse to greenlight further hirings of FTs.

As for your query: you can legally quit your job, to be sure, but you stand to lose your bonus including airfare and travel allowance. And, in my opinion, you will deserve this!

Volodiya · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:32 am Post subject:

Roger, I can't help but think you read the OP's mea culpa a little too hastily, or missed it altogther.

What I noticed in her last post was the rather skillful use of the English Language and appropriate punctuation. She's now been guided to the idea of a short-term contract and, with that new focus, she just may be able to have the experience she's looking for, while making a contribution to EFL in China.

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

My gut feeling is that the actions of unprofessional and immature FTs who don't fulfill their contract duties are making it bad for the others, especially in future.

Of course it's more complex than this - employer arrangements, market conditions, demand for English, etc. weigh into the future prospects for FTs as well. But one thing is clear: irresponsible teachers who don't fulfill their obligations are having an extremely negative impact for future teachers down the road. Chinese employers may be shrewd, but they aren't stupid - if they keep seeing repeated patterns of breaking contracts, etc. they'll adjust policy. The future may not be so optimistic.

I'm really upset about this, as while I'm not a model teacher by any means, I take my responsibilities and committments seriously. Even if the oral English isn't perceived as a 'real job', for me, I treat it like it is. So when FTs come around with a careless attitude to working in China and break contracts, etc. many others suffer from that, and the industry as a whole is questioned.

A perfect example of this was a recent media piece in Korea that highlighted some of the unprofessional behavior of FTs there, and it sent a national uproar - not long after, immigration authorities promised a massive crackdown on EFL teachers in the country.

This job has enormous benefits and freedoms, but along with that, RESPONSIBILITIES. That's why it so sad to see FTs squander the opportunities and then start bashing the Chinese, an attitude, by the way, which goes hand-in-hand with Western cultural arrogance and superiority.

Anyways, that's enough my soapbox.

But it would be interesting to do an empirical study on the behavior of FTs in China, to get a clearer idea of what's actually going on. Most of my negative perceptions of FTs come from reading the posts here, but I can't assume they are representative of all the FTs in China.

A study could involve interviewing a sample of FTs in various locations who are (or were) based in China more than 1 year. Focusing on contracts, categories of behavior could be divided as follows:

a) Teachers who finish their contracts to completion.
b) Teachers who quit before finishing the contract, for reasons out of their control.
c) Teachers who willingly quit, and leave on positive terms with the employer.
d) Teachers who quit on negative terms and/or do a midnight run.
e) Teachers who are laid off by employers and/or due to a school closure

Until we actually get some research going, it's hard to know what the overall effect of FTs in China is. My gut feeling, however, still stands.

Steve

Volodiya · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:16 am Post subject:

Struelle, that was a good, dispassionate post on this emotion laden subject.

Not everyone who wishes to teach in China will approach it with true seriousness of purpose.

My opinion-
Having empathy for our employers will go a long way to addressing many of the problems, including breaking contracts. Empathy in the context of working for a "for profit" school must necessarily include a reasonable appreciation for the "profit" motive, lacking in which, a teacher would be better served, and serve better, in a different context, where profit is not an issue.

Being honest with oneself about where you will best fit in, is something to give thought to, before applying for a position. Being honest with a prospective employer about your aims and intentions, when applying, while just basic human decency, should also be part of our approach to finding the right fit.

Speaking hypothetically, with no reference to the OP, a forum thread might be, "What reasonable precautions can an employer take to adequately protect himself against flaky FTs?"

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

My first (previous, on Friday) reply was a quick response to level's first post, and I didn't at that moment bother to read all the answers her query generated. I feel like struelle and volodiya on this matter. This is because I have put many times too much faith in newbies and their stories. Now I will say that level has PURER motives than she let on at first - I hope she will get a six-month contract and be able to tour the country during and after her stint here.

Nevertheless, I wish to sound a warning: this forum gets read by employers too, and the opinions of some reflect poorly on the majority of honest FTs. Their callousness does all of us harm in the long run!