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laura1d
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Spain
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: is there some / is there any |
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Hello,
Maybe I am being totally thick here - I am sure you will tell me if I am!!
This is multiple choice - only one answer is correct. I have looked in Murphy's Essential Grammar and also Murphy's English Grammar in use..
I cannot find an answer
Please help... Which is correct???
A) Is there some fruit
B) Is there any fruit
C) Is there many fruit
Obviously C is incorrect but.... To me A and B are both ok. Gut feeling says B but I couldn't articulate why....
PLease help - it is bugging me...
Laura |
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valley_girl
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Somewhere in Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe B is correct. I think it should be "Is/Are there any __?" and "There is/are some __." In other words, it depends on whether it is a question or a statement. In informal English, of course, we use both A and B. But for a test like TOEFL that is black-and-white when it comes to correct and incorrect responses, I would choose B. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with valley_girl.
d |
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dagi
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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When I learned English at school my teacher told us that
"any" is only used in questions and negations. A basic but simple rule.
There is some fruit.
Is there any fruit?
No, there isn't any fruit. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Would you like something to eat?  |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I drink any kind of beer. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I like any beer. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 67
Location: temp banned from dave's korean boards
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: is there some / is there any |
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| laura1d wrote: |
...only one answer is correct...
A) Is there some fruit
B) Is there any fruit
C) Is there many fruit
Obviously C is incorrect but.... To me A and B are both ok. |
Listen to valley_girl. She hit the nail on the head. The answer is B.
"Is there some fruit" is grammatically wrong but often said by children who haven't learned the lesson yet. These days, millions grow up never learning how to use "any" and "some", so mistakes are never corrected and whole generations adopt expressions like "Is there some fruit in the fridge?" without at least knowing it's grammatically odd. Sad but true... Actually, not so sad any more. Grammar isn't as valued as it used to be and such usages are seen as fine: the meaning is clear. If millions use a word a certain way then in a sense it's no longer incorrect, though standardized tests may not reflect the fact.
Off topic: I don't drink some kinds of beer but I drink any kind of whiskey and all kinds of juice.
(That's a different use of "any". You can't substitute "all" because the use of "any" emphasizes a more inclusive set, not just from the present varieties, but of the entire set of future varieties as well; just try to find a counterexample, the expression dares. "All" in such expressions has come to mean "a lot of", as in "I like all kinds of music but not country and western.")
Some people say they like many kinds of beer, even though textbook grammar says "many" and "any" belong only in questions and negative statements. Those people like a lot of kinds of beer, fossilized grammar says. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Many grammar books agree that "many" is also used in affirmative statements to indicate a large number or something.
Many people probably will disagree...
But I enjoy any argument I can get.
Justin |
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VanIslander
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 67
Location: temp banned from dave's korean boards
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
| Many grammar books agree that "many" is also used in affirmative statements to indicate a large number or something. |
No argument here.
There are so many grammar books out there.
And English is all about basic rules and exceptional cases.
That's why so many find it so difficult to learn from a textbook and need us native speakers to get it right.  |
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laura1d
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: Thanks |
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Thanks everyone,
When you put it so simply I feel a little thick for not realising!
The trouble with teaching too long in places where most people speak Tinglish or Chinglish is that you lose the ability to speak the language yourself!!!
Thanks all, have good evening
Laura |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| this is also a bit about descriptive and prescriptive grammar. If you are talking about the language as a living organism with its own rules and changing day by day you can use both of them but as one of the posters said these kind of questions are like black or white ,and the prescriptive grammar says if you know that there is use "some" like Would you like sth to drink? ( because there is sth and you offer it) if you know that there isnt you use "any" There arent any books on the table if you arent sure whether there is or isnt use" any" ıs there any fruit? ( dont know whether there is or If you have any problems, come and speak to me ( dont know whether there is or not) so dagi your teacher just wanted to cut it short and gave you a rule . |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: is there some / is there any |
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| laura1d wrote: |
A) Is there some fruit
B) Is there any fruit
C) Is there many fruit
Obviously C is incorrect but.... To me A and B are both ok. Gut feeling says B but I couldn't articulate why.... |
| whynotme wrote: |
| if you know that there is use "some" like Would you like sth to drink? ( because there is sth and you offer it) if you know that there isnt you use "any" There arent any books on the table if you arent sure whether there is or isnt use" any" ıs there any fruit? ( dont know whether there is |
Whynotme is essentially on the right lines, but let me use laura1d's original question to explain further.
If you say: "Is there some fruit?", you suspect that there may be some fruit, but you want someone else to confirm whether or not you are right.
If you say: "Is there any fruit?", you do not know if there is any fruit, but you want someone else to tell you if there is or not.
Hence, there is actually a subtle difference between the two; in the first, you want someone to confirm some information which you think you have, and, in the second, you want someone to give you information which you do not have in the first place.
I am therefore surprised when some people say that "Is there some fruit?" is "grammatically wrong". In my book, it is not. |
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valley_girl
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Somewhere in Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
But I enjoy any argument I can get.
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My kind of guy.  |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'll bet you don't say that to just anybody....
Tee Hee |
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