Job Discussion Forums

[Jaenus]

Hi all,

I'm new around here and have posted a couple times, both yielding great replies, so thanks. I have my bachelors in criminal justice, I don't have any TESOL/ etc certificate, and was really thinking about teaching in China, but I had a couple questions that I wondered:

1) While money isn't my primary goal here (seeing the world is) I would like to be able to make some to be able to go home to. This doesn't seem easy to do in China, as RMB is a horribly low exchange rate, and I know that the Japanese currency is fairly low too. However according to what FT's get paid in China vs Japan, where would I have a better chance of making more money to come home to?

2) I'm new to teaching and have only taught Kosovo children some English while I was in the US Army, but that was very temporary. Getting infront of a class can no doubt be very nerve racking, especially infront of a class full of kids who don't want to learn or who are not motivated. On average, are Chinese or Japanese classrooms easier to handle?

3) The culture in Japan is different than that in China, but both are very old and full of history. Either way I go Im bound to love my stay, though I've read some posts on the nature of some Japanese men. I'm 24, white male from America, so according to most, Ill find no problems in China, just wondering how Ill be recieved in Japan.

All in all, its a good toss up for me, and it really comes down to which job will I be able to make more money in, as in both places Ill see great sites, and Im sure no matter where I go Ill get the first-timer's stress, I guess if going to Japan means I can net a good amount more than China, then thats where I should go...

Then again, playing with the idea of going to China and loving it, the Olympics are in 2008, what better place to be than China to watch them? Thanks in advance.

[shatov]

If you are looking to save money, Japan is a better bet than China. The exchange rate for dollars is fine at the moment - the two currencies are pretty well pegged together. However, I have heard that for saving money, Taiwan is the best place to go. Not sure whether that is true or not. If you are trying to save money in Japan, you won't be able to go out drinking every night - but if you manage your money well, it will be more than you could save in China.
A friend of mine changed some yen into dollars every month, and put them in a little safebox in his flat. He managed to save a fair amount that way.
Also, moving money out of Japan is very easy. I'm not so sure about China.

I don't know what you've read about Japanese men, but it is probably nonsense. You will fit in just fine in Japan. Find some young bars to go to, and you can have plenty of friends. Older men might be more standoffish. Just make sure that you try to learn a bit of Japanese - the guys who are friendly aren't necessarily the ones who studied hard in school.
I think that you would find fitting into Japan a hell of a lot easier than fitting into China. There is still a lot of culture shock, but a lot less than China, I suspect.

Japan is often an easy ride. I get the impression that China can be quite a white-knuckle ride at times.

[go_ABs]

*Disclaimer: I've never so much as been to Japan. This is all opinion:

1. For money - Japan.
2. If you teach children, I think both countries will have good students, though in Japan the classroom conditions might be better. If you teach university/adults, Japanese are probably going to be easier.
3. I was amazed in coming to China that a lot of history is: "On this site is XXXBC there was a famous temple. It was falling down so we knocked it down and rebuilt it with concrete." I'm not sure how it is in Japan.

The big plus for China - as I see it - is there's heaps of free time. You are more of a novelty in China than in Japan, and (sometimes) there's something to be said for that, too.

There are heaps of jobs in China in the lead-up to the Olympics, so finding one won't be hard for you.

It sounds like whichever country you choose you'll make the most of it. Do eeny-meeny-miny-mo if you have to, and take the plunge.

Good luck!

(PS And maybe consider doing a TEFL certificate - it can't hurt.)

[mirabelle]

hi
never been to japan but a few people i know who have lived there have managed to save. the bottom line with japan is that if you want to save $ to bring home and your intent is to travel, i doubt you can do both. everything in japan (including domestic air, train tickets, housing) is very expensive; tokyo isn't the most expensive city in the world for nothing. the 3-hour kyoto-tokyo bullet train is something like $200 one-way. start-up costs are relatively high. most people i know recommend bringing about $3000-$5000. if you plan to go out once in a while and travel during your vacations, i don't think you'll save much. most people i know who went to japan just about broke even by the end of the year, and none of them were extravagant spenders.

you don't make a lot of money in china, but that's in terms of us $. even a low salary in china still leaves you enough to eat out at restaurants, go out at night, and travel on your vacations, and usually leave you with money left over. your housing is often provided by your school, and sometimes it's very nice; most people I know in Japan have to pay for an apartment. in japan you would be paid more, but probably wouldn't be able to afford the same lifestyle that you can have in china (travel, food, dvds, etc.)

a big plus about china is that it's so varied-- you could live in a big cosmopolitan city like shanghai, or in a nice climate like kunming, or travel within the country itself to just about any kind of environment -- alpine mountains, jungle, grassland, etc.. but then, china has plenty of minuses for some people too. china is still a developing country, whereas japan is very modern. japan seems to be easier for some people in that it's more acclimatized to westerners. a plus for japan is that most places provide you with national health insurance; health insurance is spotty in china. few places in china offer complete health coverage; some places offer you only a very little. but it's also cheap. so it's really for you to think about.

frankly i think the most important thing is probably your day-to-day experience. a bad job can really kill your experience even if you had the chance to take a fabulous two-week trip to india. you should look into teaching conditions and think about whether or not you'd be most comfortable working with kids, adults, university kids, etc. also, don't be fooled by places promising to "live in the birthplace of poet x, by the ancient temple of ancient philosopher x", etc. this is the present day. think about the kind of environment you want to be in on a daily basis -- can you stand to live in a backwater where you're the only foreigner for miles, can you put up with crowded cities, etc. You'll probably have a lot of free time, so some people prefer living in a city for that reason alone -- there's more to keep you occupied.

if your goal is to 'save' real money, then you should probably be thinking about taiwan or korea. those places would let you save, living expenses are more reasonable, and travel isn't as expensive as it is in japan. Something I find very frustrating about traveling in China is that a lot of the 'ancient' cities you read about look very similar to each other bc of the rate China is developing. The cultural rev. hit china's cultural relics/past (not to mention the people themselves) very hard. From what I understand, places like Korea, Japan and Taiwan have a little more of their traditional culture intact.
hope that all helps.

[Darkbloom]

[Noelle]

Korea or the UAE are good places to save money... I hear people work there to pay off student loans, wedding expenses... whatever.

I personally think there is no place on earth like China. If money isn't everything, I would choose China.

[william wallace]

nuttin two slay

[clyde]

My opinion, for what it is worth is China. The dating scene is awesome and you will on the top of the totem pole. If you are at all industrious, there is definitely money to be made. The people are wonderful, as is the food, adn there is an amazing amount of energy in the air. Beijing is incredible, as is the city of Xian. I will admit however that I have never been to Japan, but I am sure I would love it too.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I did Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and China.

South Korea, hands down, is the best place to save money if you are good with money. The tax rate is low, things aren't expensive (usually) and changing to US dollars is easy.

China has tons of disadvantages. The pay is crap compared to the other places. Western goods are horrible for buying in terms of price. It's complicated to convert to US dollars.

Taiwan is all right, but the tax rate is expensive and also schools don't often help you out with accomodation/airfare.

Japan is the cash cow. But things are expensive. And, you will find distractions of the female persuasion that will drain your pocketbook.

Want anything in depth, ask away.

[PAULH]

I wont add anything to this, I am a long term resident in Japan (too long)

If you want info about Japan I have put up some stickies in the Japan forum. Those should answer most of your questions.

Short answer:

Pay is better in Japan than in China;cost of living is higher in the big cities like Tokyo (Tokyo is on par with New York and london) though its possible to top up your income with privates. Set costs are high, talking baout 6 months to break even on your travel/apartment costs.
Rents and COL are lower in provincial areas but there are less chances to meet other foreigners except the guys from work.

Entry level jobs are getting harder to get as there is a lot of competition and pay is going down. You wont really save more unless you work more, get privates or upgrade your teaching qualifications and get into higher paying jobs such as at a high school.

Cant be really specific about where is best, it all depends on what you are into and climate preferences. Im in Kyoto, if it helps.

Read the stickies and get back to me if you have questions.

[earl]

it's interesting that you mention "first timer's stress". Having spent at least a year in both countries I would say that the stress for the NOOB is smaller in China than Japan. This comes down primarily to money. With the set up costs (that have already been mentioned by others) in Japan there is a great deal of pressure on you to "stick it out" with not only the country but your employer. This is because in a lot of situations your accommodation will be "organized" by your employer, which more often than not means that if you wish to leave said employer, you will also have to find new accom (with the added costs).
In China there is a great deal of freedom when it comes to employers. If you are having a bad time of it you can move on without too many hassles (relative to JAPAN). Also most likely you can pick and choose where and when you want to work, if you want more money it's there, easily accessible.
That brings me to the next point, the hours that you will have to work (be careful of "office hours") are much greater in Japan than China. For example your average language school in Japan will have you working between 25 - 30 hours a week. "NO SWEAT" I hear you say BUT you will be required to be at work for a set number of hours whether you are teaching or not. This can be anywhere from 40 - 55 hours per week. In my experience it was more like the latter.
As for China the office hours are not necessarily mandatory and in the case of public schools, not applicable at all. So with a 12 - 16 hour week (plus a few for preparation - at your leisure) you are really only doing 20 hours a week. This allows more time for freelancing.
Adding to the quandary is that everything in Japan is expensive, while in China only some things are expensive BUT the standard of living is much better in Japan on the whole (as in my opinion are the people, food and culture, both old and new).
If you want to take it easy, drink heaps and live in a largely rule less society, then I recommend China. If you want to work hard but enjoy a more refined culture, then I recommend Japan.