Job Discussion Forums

[dc855]

I've been to China to study, but now i'm going back to teach English. I'd like to know about using mandarin when teaching. for example, i'm going to be teaching young kids with very basic English, and was wondering about maybe using some mandarin to help. is it frowned upon? or, is there a strict all-english policy? If the kids have problems, do i just rely on the TA (that is if i have one...)? I'm sure it varies from job to job, but does anyone have an opinion or experience?

thanks!!

[latefordinner]

My own rule of thumb is As Little As Possible. It can be useful at times, but it can also become a crutch. The more you pretend not to know the translation, the more you force them to use the target language. Did you come here to teach Chinese or English?

[shatov]

I'd disagree. If you are teaching beginners, using their first language can help the lesson a lot.

For example - if you are using a game to practice the target language, using English to explain the game can turn the lesson into one about the English instructions, rather than the target language.

What you should do is establish some classroom English - common instructions that you use every lesson, and hopefully never have to translate into Chinese. Things like "Hello", "Goodbye", "make groups", "stand up", "sit down", "be quiet", etc. Gradually you can introduce more classroom English. Using a lot of gestures as well is very useful.

However, for difficult instructions I would be tempted, if possible, to issue them straight away in Chinese. It will give the class a better pace.

TAs should be used not simply for their Chinese ability, but also for their English ability. After all, they provide a good role model of Chinese using English to the students. Using them purely for translation is a waste.

However, as latefordinner says, Chinese can become a crutch. You have to strict if you are going to use Chinese. Make sure that you do not give way and let the students speak to you in Chinese when they can say something in English (and that you don't say something in Chinese if they can easily understand the English)
If you have a sadistic streak this is much easier to do, I think. Perhaps acknowledge that you understand the Chinese, but refuse to answer until they say it in English. Enjoy watching them squirm - but do praise them when they finally get it right.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I agree with latefordinner to an extent.

I try to use English whenever I know they understand me or have been taught those words and phrases.

But when I get pissed off at some kid talking or playing around in class, they think it's all a big joke when I tell them in English "be quiet and sit down".

My own personal rules are:

Teaching: English, unless the kids are absolute beginners.

Scoldings: English at first. If ignored or not understood, revert to Chinese.

[tw]

For little kids, their Chinese is quite limited in the first place let alone English, they need Chinese to help them understand what it is that you want them to do and what it is that you are trying to explain. But, the younger they are, the higher the likelihood that they will rely and depend on your speaking Chinese to them during class, and not give using English a try. Use the TA's, that's why they are there. I used Chinese when I taught little kids before and it did more harm than good.

[Roger]

I strongly suggest some of you guys go back to a linguistics course and study acquisition of language.
FTs get hired in China not in spite of themselves but because they are supposed to be non-Mandarin speakers.
The bad old "...since Johnny Zhou doesn't understand my instruction in English, therefore I must use CHinese" is a non sequitur. Why doesn't Johnny Zhou understand you?
Because his own Chinese English teacher failed to impart sufficient English in the first place. By "sufficient English" I don't mean the vocabulary as they study almost exclusively silly vocables and the grammar and syntax rules - everything separated and divorced from actual language practice.
Thus the majority of your students understand your instructions but that dumb Johnny Zhou fails - it is HIS personal problem because he fails to be interested in the English matter, and part of the reason is his dumb English teacher(s), and part is nature - we get such students just about everywhere and in every subject.
To kowtow to these non-performers and underachievers is a disservice to them and to the rest of the class who naturally become even more dependent on their teacher being a simultaneous translation robot (as their CHinese English teachers are).
In fact, the BEGINNERS give you the least troubles because their minds are the least burdened by silly CHinese bilingual English/CHinese instruction. In a kindergarten you can use English without a single word of Chinese (though yes, occas9ionally peppering your instructions with a vernacular expression helps maintain good vibes and discipline!).
Instructions tend to be repetitive, and therefore you should be able to give them in English only. The problem here is that their CHinese teachers NEVER INSTRUCT THEM IN ENGLISH - and we can see that these teachers are total failures at communicating in ENglish too!
Doing oral English classes should be about USING and RECYCLING all that their CHinese teachers have taught them. Why should there be anything new in your lessons?
Lower your expectations to their intellectual level - and you get far fewer disappointments Make them do their damnedest bit, including assuming responsibility for their own failures! The slackers and losers must learn from their more successful peers.

[Don McChesney]

Roger is so right.!!
I have NO TA's, and will not use any mandarin in class.
If the students don't understand my instructions for what I am trying to do, then my instructions need to more simple.
I also teach medical English, there are no Chinese teachers who know any of it, so teaching is about using body language, signage, clear illustrations, little drawings, using anything to hand, imagination, and a lot of hard work.
But they learn.

[randerso]

Good one Roger and Don McChesney!

I completely agree with the no Mandarin rule. I taught absolute beginner 4 year olds in a immersion kindergarten for a year, and I never used the first language. (Also beacuse I didn't know a great deal of it) - but even if I did, any training on linguistic aquistion I had had focused on getting the student to speak in the L2 (English). If you have a back-up system (ie Chinese) the student feels no pressure to learn the English word. It's the concept of immediate nessecity (sp?). I also think this is why having a Chinese-speaking TA can be problematic.

As I said, in my kindy class, there was only English. When I had to explain something (assignment or game) I had to model the action. Do it once yourself and then they catch on. Simplify instructions. The kids will get used to the repetitive words (win, start, 'out', score, etc) and pick them up. You may have a few quiet and stressful weeks in the beginning, but in the long run it allows then to have a greater grasp on the language.

That being said, I found it useful to take the little ones to the secretary for bathroom-related issues and illnesses.

[latefordinner]

Well said, Roger:

[shatov]

First off, Roger calm down, and re-read the posts.
You say it yourself - we are not dealing here with an ideal world where the kids' English teacher before you has taught them all in English. If the Chinese English teachers were teaching purely in English, then there would not be such a demand for FTs.
When you start with a class, it could help to use Chinese for instructions - because that is language that has not been taught by the Chinese teacher.

If the Chinese teacher has not taught it, how can you use that language and at the same time only practice what the Chinese teacher has taught them?

You can build up the amount of instruction in English quite quickly if you see the class regularly. On the other hand, if, as was the case with my job in Japan, you see each class once a week, at most, building up a set of classroom English can take a very long time.

Kindergarten kids are different to high school kids, who are again different to adult learners.
With very young learners you are in some ways luck - they soak up vocabulary and phrases like a sponge. That phase of language acquirement is over by the time they reach high school. However by high school they are much more capable of understanding complicated ideas and explanations.
If you are teaching kindergarten kids, complicated instructions are pointless in any language. If you are going to get enough time with them, it is best to never use their native tongue.
But high school kids have more self-awareness than kindergarten kids, and will be able to understand that they should make the effort to use English even if you can understand Mandarin. With that age group you are able to start in Mandarin and gradually phase it out in favour of English.

[benno]

Roger is 100% correct here

i have taught in china for over 3 years and during this time i only ever had 2 chinese teaching assistants
one TA was such a pain, translating every bloody word i said, so of course anything i said was just a complete waste of time since the children were only listening to his translation
after 2 classes i told me not to bother my class anymore!!!

the second time, i was teaching kindergardens, wiith all their parents sitting at the back observing, a TA was present
i never needed her at all, gave a great lesson,, all the parents delighted, kids active
but after the class the poor TA was so embaressed since all the parents were complaining...what the *beep*...does she get paid too

i also hate those fcuking electronic dictionaries

it just prevents the brain from working, its too easy
let the students work or figure it out for themselves, or at least try better to teach it too them in english

[Roger]

[Roger]

[shatov]

I guess it is the use of CAPITALS that makes me think you are shouting.

The demand for FTs comes in part from a need to look good. Having foreign teachers to teach English presents a better public image.

Your point about English as a tool of communication rather than a dead language is correct. However the conclusion that you are trying to draw does not follow. I could teach purely in English by having the students repeat everything that I say. Just by using English I could teach it as a dead subject.

Teaching English as a tool of communication would certainly be aided by only teaching in English - and would itself aid you in teaching only in English. However, you could teach English as a tool of communication but still give all the classroom instructions in Chinese.

Further more, I could teach English but with Chinese classroom instructions without having to translate everything that I said in English into Chinese. Your point is again a good one, but irrelevant to the question posed by this thread.


I have experienced total immersion teaching of a language, and teaching of a foreign language while using English for classroom instructions.
At a beginners level, for my own foreign language learning, I do not want to be taught by total immersion. I found that having classroom instructions in English, not in the foreign language, was very helpful.

At the same time, I would want the teacher to start using the foreign language for classroom instructions, with an English translation following it once or twice in the lesson. And then gradually phase out the English translation.
But still, for difficult grammar points I would want the teacher to do some explaining in English rather than derail the lesson completely just to teach the explanation words, to then do the explanation in the foreign language.

That is how I want to learn foreign languages, after having experienced several different ways of learning with several different languages.

Of course the students hear too much Chinese in English classes, but that is no reason to cut Chinese completely out of the English classroom.

[Jolly]