Job Discussion Forums

[myesl]

I am writing of my experience at Jiaozuo University in Jiaozuo, Henan. I got there in the last few days of 2004 and stayed for 7 months (my contract length, plus several days extra they wanted) until the beginning of July 2005. I should note that I have lived in Korea and Japan for a year each and Taiwan for two and one half years. I speak and read Chinese well.

Very soon I realized it would not be a pleasant stay for the simple reason that Li Shiwei, the FAO, Lily Li (Li Lijun, in Chinese), the English department head, and Claudia Wang(?), who did the day-to-day work of the English department were all a bunch of sphincters.

I lived on the first floor of a student dormitory. In addition to the Chinese students yelling outside to their friends (the school's idea of an intercom) I had to put up with fantastically noisy foreign students (all from the same developing country which shall remain nameless). The previous year, the school's first two foreign teachers, an Australian couple, had complained. Then an Australian teacher who mostly taught at our sister school but lived at JU briefly complained. My Canadian colleague, who arrived in September 2004, complained and had shortly before my arrival gotten to the point where he threw his foreign expert certificate down on the FAO's desk and said he was leaving. That day they found him another place to live on Campus -- in teacher's housing. They didn't fix his toilet or hook up his washing machine for months and never gave him hot water.

I was told there were no other teacher's apartments available on campus. I could go to a dumpy motel 15 minutes away. The FAO lied as usual and said it was 2 minutes away. But that would have been completely inconvenient since I was right on campus and China has enough inconveniences. Also, my school apartment had things like their computer and the VCD player I had bought. The FAO said I could go there during the day and sleep at the hotel at night. No. Anyway, the foreign and Chinese students made way too much noise during the day too.

The English department never welcomed me. They never told me when the schedule changed (for sports day, May Day, or such), never told me the procedures for testing (when, what, that three finals were required for each class, etc.). My students and the other foreign teacher at my school told me all these things. Lily and Claudia would tell the most laughable lies.

But Li Shiwei (FAO) was the best liar there. Well, best not in the sense of skill but rather inclination. I think he was a practice liar. Like a comedian who always wants to try out a new joke, he always had a new untruth to tell. He's also fantastically lazy and doesn't want to do anything unless you literally yell at him (or as the husband in the aforementioned Australian couple did, choke him!).

There's SO MUCH MORE to tell you. Basically, don't go

Greg
July 26, 2005
[email protected]

[Roger]

I really see no point in your post! So those "foreign students" were noisy? Your superiors "lied"? Your timetable changed overnight?

But you never got mugged. You didn't get cheated out of your pay. The PSB didn't visit you in the dead of the night. You got apparently your airfare and holiday allowance paid out and had legal status. You didn't have to pass underpeforming students. In fact, I was missing any mention of your students.

You are a whiny sort spoilt brat that should not have ventured from Japan to KOrea to China.
Why didn't you gripe about the "lousy pay", the scarcity of Chinese females or the hot summer weather?

[warranty card]

I have read Roger's reply and, in my short time reading on this forum, I have come to respect his authority and the accuracy of his information. Therefore, if he thinks you shouldn't complain till you get mugged, etc., I am wondering just how safe or how tolerable a place China is.

If being just another in a line of people who have been subjected to intolerable noise and yet another who is not even given the courtesy of a pretence at honesty from your employer's representatives and if this is regarded by China experts such as Roger as "whining" and if you are branded for complaining as the "whiny sort spoilt brat", I wonder just what sort of people are prepared to tolerate China.

Maybe many teachers in China have no choice but to remain in China for all sorts of private complications in their lives outside China, but it does seem strange to me that such long-term teachers in China and people so knowledgeable as Roger should have become so accustomed to the intolerable that those with genuine grievances should be branded as "the whiny sort spoilt brat".

I've been told that many foreign teachers in China are unemployable in their home countries or that many can't leave China on account of trouble with the law in their home countries. This is very sad - but it does seem dreadful that those so trapped must regard the sort of thing complained of as acceptable.

I shall certainly be careful to make appropriate demands re the serenity of my housing before signing any contract. I don't want to be thought of as a "whiny sort spoilt brat".

I'd have to be in a state of constant drunkenness to tolerate such conditions. And then I guess I wouldn't know if I'd been mugged or not into the bargain.

[clark.w.griswald]

I too feel that Rogers comments were somewhat harsh. It is true that many complaints are not so legitimate, but I do feel that myesl's comments are very reasonable. He didn't have a good time, he outlined his reasons why, and readers can choose whether those issues would be an issue for them or not.

Like Roger I have been and still am critical of some of the posts that are made about schools from time to time. I really don't see any point to posting comments such as 'Stay away from ABC school they are liars'. Often written all in caps. These are uninformative posts that help no one as they contain no details, and often the people who post these comments get awfully defensive if you question them.

I didn't get that sense from myesl's post. I think that he has a valid complaint and that he expressed his concerns well.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[billy chong]

[warranty card]

Not sure what you mean and if I gave offence, I'm sorry. I'm not coming to China as a teacher but I've done a bit of talking about the China scene. Maybe I've spoken to the wrong people and I don't know what teachers say about themselves but non-teaching types come up with quite a mixed bag of comments about teachers in China. Anyway, when I'm there, I'll go with the flow and declare that I too am not guilty and hope to have a good time.

[myesl]

Roger, my students were a mixed bag. The first year students were a nice bunch (about 90) and though a little lazy, started working when I got after them. The second year students (90) were quite lazy. They were also quite disrespectful. The third year students (45) only had five weeks of class before going to their internships. They were lazy, but respectful. Of course, there were a small number of hard-working students in both the 2nd and 3rd year classes; some of the second year students were polite.

It's not like I wrote two sentences, "JU sucks! Kiss my arse."

Like most people who don't post a lot on this board, I am quite busy. I don't have time to live on this board. I periodically come here to either help or be helped (I've done both). Unlike you, I don't try to tell people they're full of it and insult them (unless it is done to me first). I've seen you do this many times. You are a sorry apologist for China. China has problems and I'll not excuse them for any reason whatsoever. Prospective teachers ought to know how it is and make up their minds based on the information they can get, not only what Judge Roger allows as evidence in his private ESL Cafe court.

I gave a slightly more detailed review at Nate's China School Review since they gave some structure to the review process.
http://www.chinaschoolreview.com/index.php?module=reviews&func=showcontent&id=78

[Mideatoo]

[SillySally]

In my last three jobs I have, at my own expense, visited the school, observed a class, spoken with the staff, viewed the FE housing and only after finding everything acceptable, agreed to sign on the dotted line.

I know this takes time and can be expensive, but it is so well worth it.

It also helps to press the school for an early move in date so you can adjust easier and get to know the community before that start date.

This helps me, I do not know if it would help you.