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[valley_girl]

Does anyone else hate these infernal things? Whoever invented electronic translators should be taken out and shot.

My intermediate students are using words like "consanguinity", "fettle", and "howbeit" in their essays. It almost seems like Shakesperean English.

[valley_girl]

I should add that I do not allow electronic translators in class. We have a language policy that forbids the use of direct translation in class, including using an electronic translator. However, this doesn't appear to stop them from using them at home. *sigh*

[Justin Trullinger]

Hate them. Also internet translation services- although it's prohibited, we get an occasional student who thinks it would be easier to do a composition assignment that way...always makes for a laugh.

My favourite is when they say they live in "I remove." I'm in the city of Quito, which could also be the first person conjugation of the Spanish verb "quitar." (to remove) Of course, they always deny having used the computer...


Regards,
Justin

[denise]

I wanted to hate them on principle, but the ones that my students in Japan had actually had neat features like synonyms, sample sentences, etc. More often than not, when students used them they would check their results with me, so I could tell them if the translations were a bit off.

I have no problem with students using dictionaries, provided that they are trained to use them as a last resort and to understand that they will sometimes get screwy results. When I taught reading classes, I would forbid dictionaries for the first time through the text.

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[ls650]

None of my students can afford to buy one, so it's not a problem.

I don't allow print dictionaries in class though; if a student needs to know a word, they can just ask.

[Gregor]

When I did my TEFL certificate back in my previous life (so it seems), we were taught to NOT allow dictionaries in the class.
I now understand that 100%. If they are just looking up words, the dictionaries are almost always translation dictionaries, which, except at the lowest levels, are actually detrimental to their learning English as an independent language for communication. Even worse when you consider that, in composition, they are trying to translate a word from their language, which, though good for a laugh, allows them to use their language as a crutch and they are never going to get any sort of command of English with a crutch.
Even proper monolingual dictionaries are not good IN CLASS, though. If a student doesn't know a word, he can look it up in a bilingual dictionary (very bad), ask a fellow student in L1 (equally bad), ask a fellow student in English or use a monolingual dictionary (MUCH better), or ask the teacher (WAY the best).
I mean, what do these people think the teacher is THERE for?? If a student asks me a word, I will guide him/her toward the answer and elicit it from him/her or another student. Makes them THINK about it. That's why they have a CLASS, isn't it?
At least, a dictionary is better than a translator. For one, it's monolingual. For another, you can learn dictionary skills. In fact, I do lessons with student dictionaries, sometimes. How to find out a LOT about a word, you know (part of speech, etymology, etc.).
Those electronic translators are EVIL, and the ones in China are actually WRONG a full third of the time!

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[dmb]

I hate those little yellow pocket L1-L2 dictionaries(langenschiedt(sp?)). Often the translations are incorrect. When there is a choice of words students invariably pick the longest word available, and it is usually wrong because of context, collocation, etc

[valley_girl]

I (we) do allow monolingual dictionaries in class. We encourage students to use an ESL dictionary (particulary low-level students) and teach them dictionary skills. We also teach them ways to figure out meanings without looking words up in the dictionary - stems and affixes, guessing meaning from context, etc. I agree with Gregor that translation is a crutch and will slow down language learning. I learned my L2 in an immersion setting and have nothing but good things to say about total language immersion.

I agree with Ben's comments about teachers being facilitators who should guide students towards becoming independent learners. I definitely think that we should strive for this. Using the teacher as a crutch is no better than using an electronic translator. Reading, writing, listening, speaking...these all require learning and strengthening certain skills. What skill is involved in direct translation? Moreover, what do they learn from it? IMHO, "none" and "nothing".

[valley_girl]

[Gregor]

Tim (Ben Round de Bloc) has a point. But we're also clearly talking about completely different cultures, learing styles, and possibly age groups.
My students at the moment are Chinese, and largely children. Adults and near-adults who have an interest in learning the language require nothing more than my explaining the reasons why I don't like translating dictionaries.
Kids want to make their lives as easy as possible, and don't necessarily care about learning English (i.e. I am teaching them largely against their will and need to make them think, as much as possible, in English when in class).

Still, I am a language learner as well, and I am aware of the use, to the independent learner, of translatng dictionaries.
I learned dictionary skills from my mother. "What does {such and such} mean?" "Look it up! Are your hands broken??"
NICE.
But useful. And I try to instill this in my own students. I don't give translations and when they ask me about vocabulary, I AM able, even at low levels, to explian to them what a word means, and this is useful in their use of English - not only to learn the WORD, but to generally USE English to learn MORE English. THIS is the culture thing - they are accustomed to being "taught" English IN CHINESE. This is how they are taught pretty much everything, here - they are LECTURED AT, are expected to take notes, and then pass a test. And that test is generally written, SOMETIMES with a listening passage on cassette, but for the most part, it's writing and reading. And, again, the method of teaching is to lecture at them in their native language. It's unbelievably crap and useless.
A large part of what we do in my school is try to break those habits and get them to take part in the lesson, not just look at the teacher as though he/she's on TV. This is their default. And every chance they get, they dive for a dictionary. No, strike that. They dive for the electronic translator. New students in my classes are MORTIFIED to learn that they are not allowed, and when I demonstrate how inaccurate they are, they are sceptical and sometimes even choose to believe their little gadget rather than the native- English-speaking teacher! Those critters ARE expensive, after all...
THIS is the environment that has most led to my attitudes toward the translators and dictionaries.
I was less adamant about it in Mexico, but I held to the same basic rule regarding dictionaries even there. But I didn't have to be as adamant there.

Mind you, when I was studying Spanish in Mexico, I would hold conversations with anyone who would talk to me, and who was also patient enough to wait for me to look up the word I wanted (but in a BOOK, by God, NOT an e-translator). But I looked up a word often enough that, because of local custom, was completely inappropriate. For example (and you teachers in Mexico, get ready to cringe), there was the time when I asked my landlord when the "criada" would show up that week.
My bilingual dictionary gave "criada" as the term for "maid," without comment. But in context, and in that setting, I may as well have asked an American landlord when the *beep* was going to show up.
I know full well that word will be bleeped when I post this, as it well should be. it's completely inappropriate in every possible context, in Standard American - or British - English. The word that I expect to be bleeped was a VERY offensive word for a black person. Worse, in some cases, than the crude word for the female pudenda.
And that is the strength of the word "criada" in Mexico. But in Spain (and, thus, my dictionary), it's unexceptional.
My point? Just that dictionaries have their place, and, as I said in a previous post, I teach dictionary skills. But the teacher is there for a reason. When a student uses a word like "elucidate" when he wants to say "explain," it's clear that he/she is not taking advantage of the fact that he/she actually has a native speaking teacher.

[ls650]

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[dmb]

[ls650]