Job Discussion Forums

ryanj · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 2 Location: Canada

Hello, we are a young couple from Canada. I have a diploma in new media (web design, multimedia development etc) but my fiance only has her high school diploma. We are interested in teaching overseas. What options are available to us? Do employers hire couples? Would it be recommended that we apply for a working holiday and find our own jobs when we get to wherever we decide to go? I like the idea of having a job secured before I leave the country, but because of the fact we do not have a BA that it may be impossible for us to apply for a working visa. What countries would you guys recommend for someone in our position. We would like to save money, but still experience the country.

donfan · Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 217

I hate to tell you this but your chances are zero to none. China would be your most likely chance but don't hold your breath.

go_ABs · Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 507

My (now ex) gf and I applied to jobs in China as a couple. I have a degree and she does not. We got lots of offers (as most people do when applying to China, because of a shortage of teachers and a proliferation of scamming 'recruiters'). I feel that the Chinese employers saw us as more stable, since I'm less likely to get boozed up and molest a student, say, and we're both less likely to do midnight runs. Also, they could put us both in one house, and get two teachers for 1 or 1.5 times the housing.

Please note, though: it didn't do wonderful things to our relationship. Living together in a place where you might be the only people for miles who can speak English is HARD, make no mistake.

I think you have a good chance of scoring jobs in China. Because you both have no degree, your options are fairly limited in terms of country. Although I understand that non-degreed non-Americans can apply for a working holiday visa in Japan. Someone from there would need to tell you more.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on!

Gregor · Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 842 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Are you qualified to teach in any way? If you at least have TEFL/TESOL certificates or a CELTA, you'd at least come off as serious. Even in China, to get a decent job (not someone who is just going to take unfair and uncool advantage of you or rip you off), you will need to show SOMETHING.
As for saving money. Man. You need to read this thread:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=28051

go_ABs · Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 507

Gregor is right in a way, but perhaps over-emphasises things. There IS a shortage of teachers in China, and for that reason even legitimate businesses are sometimes willing to take people who aren't overly qualified. A degree is often required, but there are plenty of people teaching legally in China with fewer qualifications.

Now, of course without qualifications the kind of jobs you can expect will only pay 3,000RMB a month or so. Unless you're living in the wops you're not going to save more than a handful of notes.

Good luck.

Gregor · Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 842 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

go_ABs is also right, in a sense.
Yes, there are teachers here on fewer qualifications. And some people can still get IN with fewer qualifications.
The laws haven't exactly CHANGED, but many provinces are enforcing them more than they used to. Even in most of those provinces, it is POSSIBLE to get legit work papers with less than a bachelor's degree and a TEFL certificate (and I don't really think the law cares a whit about the TEFL/CELTA/whatever, but most of the reputable English schools do). But to get the work papers without the stated qualifications, you have to have someone in the school who has guangxi with the PSB (immigration). Those people may not tell you if there's going to be a problem. You can try to get in, and if you are offered a job, then go for it. But be careful:
* If they ask you to jump through a bunch of hoops before you get to China and you work it out and get Z visas (or, nowadays, Residence permits) in your passports before you leave Canada, then you're golden.
* If there is a foreigner (westerner) telling you that it's not a problem, just come out on a toursit (L) visa and they'll work it out when you get there, ask them if you will have to make a visa run to Hong Kong or somewhere. Chances are, you will. If they say "no," then you are probably dealing with an employer with guangxi.
* If a Chinese employer (without a westerner contact for you to deal with) promises pie in the sky (i.e. "No problem! Come out! We have job for u!"), proceed with extreme caution. MAYBE they can get you a visa; maybe they are hoping to renew your L visa forever (maybe they can, maybe they can't), maybe they'll send you on a visa run and expect you to pay for it (this was the practice at my school before I showed up), and maybe any number of other things.

None of these things are issues if you have a bachelor's degree. There is a shortage of teachers, and they can get you a visa.
OH! Except they may still try to send you on a visa run and make you pay for it. Ask about that. If there isn't a good, foreign DOS (and you'll have to judge your vibe to be sure of that), you may be looking at some trouble.
Yes, it can be done. But if you don't know what you're getting into, I would very much NOT count on working it out once you're here.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

EnglishBrian · Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 189

Ryanj

I definitely think that you should both get some kind of TEFL certificate. Probably a CELTA or equivalent because it would add a 'seriousness' to your CV and would help detract from your lack of degrees (for countries where not having a degree automatically precludes you from working). I worked with a couple who'd done a weekend TEFL taster course and hadn't got degrees in Lithuania, and they were great.

Things are tighter now, especially since they're in the EU, but I'd say consider Europe further east - Ukraine, Georgia, Bulgaria etc. etc. You wouldn't really 'save' serious cash but would certainly live well and see the country. I expect your focus is more on Asia, but just worth bearing in mind.

donfan · Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 217

Well I must admit if the posters on this board is indicitive of ESL teachers in general then the industry is in very poor shape. Encouraging people to work illegally and not to worry about getting proper qualifications to teach is very poor form and makes ESL the joke it is.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

valley_girl · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:07 am Post subject:

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

While China is relatively open to people I do not believe it to be a good idea to flaunt it as a place for all and sundry.
It is a job applicant's bloody duty to first get to grips with his own intentions and interests; just "travel around the world" is no good proposition for someone who cannot afford to pay for their own trip.
You need a bit of dedication, stamina and not a little pecuniary reserves if you want to stay sane and healthy!
What's more, if someone doesn't know which country attracts them they should not go abroad in the first place; Canada is big enough for any one to "travel and teach".