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SillySally
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
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 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:07 am Post subject: How To Get A Higher Salary |
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Over the years many here at Dave's have advocated that the EFL teachers should negotiate hard and hold out for a higher salary. I can not agree because I have seen so many try and fail. There are exceptions but at least at public unis there is no meaningful negotiation. It is take it or leave it.
Why?
The reason is simple. When China wants REAL teachers they get them through the visiting professor program. First you must be a preofessor in your home country and then your uni must have a cooperation agreement with a Chinese uni. Your home uni pays you and puts you on sab leave. The China uni houses you and provides a small stipend.
China regards "Foreign Experts" as "travellers." We would say "backpackers." We are segregated from Chinese teachers living quarters and usually housed in a hotel room living out of a suitcase. There are exceptions but this is the norm.
There is a way you can change their perception of you and cause them to search you out at an even higher rate of pay. here is what you need to do:
1. Make yourself know as someone wishing to make a contribution to the overall better off Chinese society rather than a chronic complainer.
2. Write articles analysing current TEFL problems in China, along with suggested solutions, and submit them to conferences in China.
3. Present conference papers and rub elbows with the Chinese movers and shakers.
4. Market yourself as something better than a "traveller" just vacationing in China.
Then you will not have to negotiate for a higher salary, it will be offered! |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:20 am Post subject: |
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One of the most important "documents" to gain higher wages is a teacher's cert for a state or prov. from a native English Speaking country. Higher salaries are offered at teachers work fairs out side of the Chinese border than are offered inside the country.
Hold out rarely works as the budget is set by the board and thus cannot be changed ..although there is usually room to wiggle...but dont expect it to be major movement...in the upward direction...and if they really want to they will promise you a rase and then secure another at a lower rate..then let you go...and the road to recovering lost wages or mending a broken contract is a long and lumpy one...
It is my experience that the Chinese admin (from Univs. and private schools) will pay you more if and only if you have something to give..and often that is marketing promotion and not teaching skills..thus a cowboy of a teacher can be more valuble to an admistration (because he can bring in more students) than a teacher with skills that few (other than the parents and bill payers) care about. The exception to the rule would be those school that answer to a higher power (such as the British coucil) but even those schools have been hood winked with false paperwork to incl testing and writing... |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:30 am Post subject: It is possible to negotiate a higher salary! |
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I noticed that you have "advertised" the Xi'an EFL Conference on another thread, SillySally, where people are supposed to make contributions to the event by writing, submitting and even presenting a paper which outlines how EFL teaching in China can be improved. (Huh?!  )
Sounds great, but we, the vast majority of us grass-roots TEFL types in China, are not in any position whatsoever to do such a thing, are we? The vast majority of us are just work slaves, "guest-workers", eking out an existence while trying to make uninterested kids and company workers interested in speaking English in class.
I guess one way that EFL teaching in China could be "improved" is simply by making it a happy experience for both teachers and students by having only interested students in class! Oh, yes, and burn all the stupid text-books and lesson plans written by people who do not have to teach any more! Shall I present that as a paper?! 
As for not being able to negotiate a higher salary outside the university environment, which is what SillySally appears to be concentrating on (for some reason), that is pure nonsense. I currently have a summer job (which ends tomorrow!  ) at a private language mill here in Wuhan. The school offered me originally 5,000 RMB for 25 hours of teaching per week for 4 weeks. I rejected the offer totally. I was then offered 6,000 RMB for the same amount of work. Again, I totally rejected the offer and, in effect, demanded less work and more money or else I would not work for the school!
In the end, the school "capitulated" and offered me 7,000 RMB for just 20 (not 25) hours of teaching per week for the four weeks. I accepted.
So, you see, it is possible to play hardball and get what you want, provided that (a) you already have a reputation as a hard-working teacher with a professional demeanour (whereas newbies wouldn't), and (b) the school is so desperate that it is unlikely to get anybody like this in the few days before the summer season starts! 
I suppose that I was just lucky that circumstances dictated that I could make demands beyond what the school would have liked and thus get that much better deal. |
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deezy
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 307
Location: China and Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| I got my raise by resigning. At the end of my first year I should have been given a 10% raise but I was handed a contract with the same salary typed in. I refused to sign of course. Later I was told that they 'thought they'd try' to get away with it. Like a little game - let's hope she doesn't notice that there's no increase! I got my increase, but they got bad karma. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:35 am Post subject: Re: How To Get A Higher Salary |
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| SillySally wrote: |
Why?
The reason is simple. When China wants REAL teachers they get them through the visiting professor program. China regards "Foreign Experts" as "travellers." We would say "backpackers." There is a way you can change their perception of you and cause them to search you out at an even higher rate of pay. here is what you need to do:
1. Make yourself know as someone wishing to make a contribution to the overall better off Chinese society rather than a chronic complainer.
2. Write articles analysing current TEFL problems in China, along with suggested solutions, and submit them to conferences in China.
3. Present conference papers and rub elbows with the Chinese movers and shakers.
4. Market yourself as something better than a "traveller" just vacationing in China.
Then you will not have to negotiate for a higher salary, it will be offered! |
Silly Sally has had yet another adrenaline discharge and is full of beans. Expect more stuff like this in the next hours!
As for her points, some are made in good faith and can be shared. But what about her poin !?
DO WE WANT TO MAKE A CONTRIBTUION TO CHINA? Yes, but what kind of contribution? It's our overlords who decide whether we have done a "useful" job - and "usefulness" nearly always is misinterpreted to mean "meekly obedient". That's a sure recipe for disaster - we should change this education system, not support it!
2. ...and because of wjhat I said under point 1, point 2 is irrelevant; whatever we suggest the CHinese improve they won't listen. I can give you the web of a Chinese education discussion forum run by an established and famous academy - if you don't write what they like to read you won't get published, and beisdes you are contributing for THEIR glory and glamour.
3. "Chinese movers and shakers"... ha! Who moves and shakes the foundations here? The Party! Silly Sally is an advocate of sycophantism!
4. Point taken. Here a tremendous change must occur, but that's beyond our power. It is firmly anchored in the minds of NOrth America's youth that they can "teach their way around the globe" - a fantasm that I consider antisocial.
The CHinese on their side rightly consider themselves as philanthropists who enable destitute Americans to immerse themselves in the "fascinating culture of China".
It is who you shake your hands with that decides what the outcome will be. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:11 am Post subject: Re: How To Get A Higher Salary |
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| SillySally wrote: |
| China regards "Foreign Experts" as "travellers." We would say "backpackers." |
That sounds to me as much of an unfair generalization of FT's in China, as the generalizations made by FT's about China and the Chinese. There are plenty of FT's who have worked for the same employer for at least two years, while many Chinese workers don't last more than a few months, weeks, or even DAYS at a job before quitting. I would have gladly stayed at my last job. The school's FAO wanted me to stay but the FL department didn't, nor did they want anyone from last term to stay. So, who's to blame?
| Quote: |
| We are segregated from Chinese teachers living quarters and usually housed in a hotel room living out of a suitcase. There are exceptions but this is the norm. |
That's because the Chinese teachers dormitory doesn't have room to be facilitated according to our requirements! We want private bathroom with shower and toilet, our own kitchen, fridge, living room with TV and possibly a computer. You think they can wave a wand and magically convert a teacher's dormitory unit from a single bedroom with 8 bunks into an apartment for FT's? That's why they have something called Foreign Expert Apartments in Chinese universities. We are the FE's so we live in much better condition than our Chinese counterparts do. SillySally, for a China TEFL veteran, I would have thought you should know about this better than anyone else.
| Quote: |
| 1. Make yourself know as someone wishing to make a contribution to the overall better off Chinese society rather than a chronic complainer. |
I brought up the issue to the FL department about unmotivated students. What did they say? "Oh just get the students with good English to talk and ignore those who have bad English". So what else was I to do?
| Quote: |
2. Write articles analysing current TEFL problems in China, along with suggested solutions, and submit them to conferences in China.
3. Present conference papers and rub elbows with the Chinese movers and shakers. |
SillySally, obviously you are making these suggestions based on personal experience without taking into consideration that a majority of FT's in China are nobody's -- even those working in universities. Yes, maybe after a few years working in the same city you have become a bit of a celebrity. But most of us don't have that prestige. Also, ageism is important here. The older you are, the more respected you are. That's the Chinese way -- respect the elders. So expecting that any one of us to be invited to conferences is just pure fantasy. There are many of us on Dave's who do have a genuine interest in improving the Chinese education system. But do you think we will ever be heard? Noooooooooooooooooo! Why? Because, we are nobody. We don't teach at prestigious first tier universities, and we haven't been in China for 20 years. Some of us also have to take into consideration that because we are not white, it wouldn't make the government look good by claiming that it has invited these "foreign" experts. Last but not least, because of our age, we wouldn't be considered as being well-experienced. So, rubbing elbows with movers and shakers? I'm sorry, I thought that being able to attend the Spring Festival banquet for FT's organized by the city of Dalian was an honor itself, never mind anything else. Oh I can write a few articles, but do you want to know where they'll end up? In the WC. |
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virago
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Location: Approved Chinese Government Censor
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: |
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I think we would all agree that the Chinese are master negotiators. Their skills in this respect are some of the best I have seen. What they learn from a haggling society has spilled over to the business world.
Salary negotiation depends on many factors and cannot be put into simple terms.
Many Chinese companies also view people as a commodity, if you don't come and work for me then I will find some other body to fill your space for the same (or even less) money than I am offering you.
What FT's have to do to work in a school or University is no different to working in a Chinese firm. FT's are not treated anythings special than what other normal Chinese employees have to go through. |
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KES
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 722
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Quoth Roger:
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| It is firmly anchored in the minds of NOrth America's youth that they can "teach their way around the globe" - a fantasm that I consider antisocial. |
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| The CHinese on their side rightly consider themselves as philanthropists who enable destitute Americans to immerse themselves in the "fascinating culture of China". |
The majority of schools I've seen have teachers from many different Countries. What's "firmly anchored" in their minds to lure them here?
Or are your mind reading powers limited only to North Americans?
Keep playing the one note. It's monotonal, but mildly amusing in a sad sort of way. |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 am Post subject: Teaching children for nine hours a day?! |
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| deezy wrote: |
| I got my raise by resigning. At the end of my first year I should have been given a 10% raise but I was handed a contract with the same salary typed in. I refused to sign of course. Later I was told that they 'thought they'd try' to get away with it. Like a little game - let's hope she doesn't notice that there's no increase! I got my increase, but they got bad karma. |
Is that when you were at EF? Typical!
In fact, I can tell you that, at the end of my second year at EF Wuhan (Hankou), even if a new DoS had been appointed so that I was no longer the acting DoS, my center manager wanted only to offer me a part-time job teaching kids at the weekends. He claimed that I could earn "almost as much" as a part-time teacher on two days per week than I had done as an acting DoS for five days a week, "provided that you work 12 ACH (academic hours) (i.e., 9 real hours) a day"; that is, I work 18 hours in the classroom just on the weekend. HAH!
The conditions were made by him and presented to me on a "take-it-or-leave-it" basis, knowing full well that I would not accept it. Suppose that I had found another job working the other five days a week, does that mean that I would end up working seven days a week without a break? Of course! There was absolutely no way in this or any other universe that I would slave for 9 hours a day, even for two days per week, teaching spoilt, inattentive, disinterested Chinese children - forget it!
I passed on that so-called "offer" and don't regret it.  |
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deezy
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 307
Location: China and Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Chris... Yes, and I'm still with them because they did in the end give me the raise, plus it suits me at the moment. I was finally taken into the boardroom and told that the management had discussed it with the investors who had decided that I deserved a raise because I had been such a great DoS! The fact that I had resigned because they were trying to get away with paying me the same, was swept under the table.
It's a cultural thing. I need recognition (with a decent salary) for the work I do... they think that just praising the hell out of me, giving toasts with heaps of 'gambeys' and baijui, and saying how grateful they are, is enough. No. Doesn't work with us laowei's!
I'm staying because I can't commit to another full 12 months, with commitments back in both the UK and Australia, so it wouldn't be fair to another school to sign a contract and then renege. As long as I give a month's notice I now feel I can leave whenever, without letting anyone down. |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Beware your school director when you resign! |
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| deezy wrote: |
| As long as I give a month's notice I now feel I can leave whenever, without letting anyone down. |
The SARS scare in 2003 caused four of the FTs at the EF Wuhan (Hankou) school to submit their resignations, causing my center manager to experience an emotion that he rarely displayed - open-mouthed disbelief. Until that point, he had always wanted to be seen as a "man of action", as one who always knew what to do and when to do it. However, he was totally unprepared and, in a private meeting with me, the then-acting DoS, in his office, he confessed that he had no clue as to what to do. Eventually, though, two of those FTs, a couple, decided that they would stay, much to his relief.
A little later, however, my wife expressed her misgivings at the SARS situation and indicated that we should quit China for safety reasons. Once again, when I told my centre manager that I was considering quitting my position a month hence, he was shocked and dismayed. Then came something totally unexpected. He said that I could leave if I wanted to, BUT ... he said that he would refuse to give me a letter of recommendation.
I told my wife and she had a private meeting with him in his office a few days later. It did no good. He gave no ground, insisting that, if I wanted to have a letter of recommendation, I had either to resign there and then or else to stick it out to the end of my contract. My wife was hopping mad (albeit not in front of the public). She revealed that, in his opinion, we were both totally immature people who had not even thought everything through and that we would have to "accept the full consequences" of our actions if I did resign.
In the end, I decided to stay and I finished my second year with that school five months later. Even though my wife and I never forgot how he treated us, we thought it would be better if I tried to stay a third year. He, however, had other ideas and made that "offer" I mentioned in my previous post.
The bottom line is that he was bitterly resentful of my decision to resign, even if I gave him a month's notice. My wife and I both concluded that he was nothing but an egotist bent on having everything his way and on belittling those who try and throw a spanner in the proverbial works. I reversed my decision, yet his reaction was to distance himself from me, making my position as an acting DoS a complete nonsense as he continued to dictate everything from his office.
If you do resign from your post for whatever reason, even if you give the requisite amount of notice, you may find that your school director then shows his true colours if he thinks that you have no "real" reason for resigning. Beware! |
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SillySally
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink! |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: Misunderstand the subtleties of English proverbs |
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| SillySally wrote: |
| You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink! |
My former EF center manager, I fear, does not understand the subtleties of English proverbs, only money.  |
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SillySally
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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OP withdrawn
Last edited by SillySally on Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:17 am Post subject: |
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In reply to your latest salvo, SILLY SALLY, let me state the fact that I have received raises without much fuss on my part most of the time; my current employer has increased my pay of his own free will without any prodding on my part. Does this strike you as unbelievable? I like my job and my students even though I have some pretty sarcastic opinions on both.
And, Silly, I am enjoying myself thoroughly in Cathay - I do not feel it necessary to worm my way from one city to another "teaching CHinese teachers how to teach" and getting so exhausted that I am unable to join Dave's for weeks!
I am having a heck of a holiday, gal! |
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