Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

I'm teaching Oral and writing to Sophomores next year, and plan on doing a lot of debating. I need a nice, uncontroversial book with essays, etc. that is already being used in China, hopefully.
I don't want something that wants to debate if Tibet should be part of China, etc.But I do need something where all the students can read the same material. All I have so far is ' Foreign Language Teaching and Research Press''Book #3 Debating. Better then nothing, I guess, but of ten essays on each subject, nine of the essays have the same point of view. Very unbalanced.
Looking forward to the tons of responses as you come back from your well-earned vacations
Thanx
Chris

[Bertrand]

Obviously you have never been to - nor taught in - China before. If you had you would know that debate is pointless. The are not naturally argumentative, and besides, their English language ability will most likely not exactly facilitate 'debate'.

Over the last few years I have found that it is best never to ask "Who thinks this and who thinks this?" - since no one will resond at all. Rather, it is best to just split the group up yourself and tell them what they think (i.e., have to 'debate').

Sorry that I could not be of more help.

[gmat]

Open wide...... If you had ever used this forum before you would know that Chris is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable posters on China using this board. Thanks for being so helpful!!

[Peter]

[wOZfromOZ]

I've got to tell you that this is my experience too if the students are in da yi or da er - First and second year Uni......... but in 3rd year -..... WOW - the change is unbelieveable. I gave the topic for homework last term - "CORRUPTION IN CHINA - esp. Government Corruption".......

I am not playing any joke on anybody here when I tell you that my 2 module 8 (3rd year classes).......They came back a week later with the most astonishing prepared responses - .......of the 18 members of my class 9 group (they're pretty good) 16 came out with forcefully argued inquiries into the endemic corruption in local government. ( fOR EXAMPLE How many here know that neally 3,500 civil servants (year 2001) have been convicted and are doing time in chinese jails now for civil service corruption in this great land! - that's probably a token gesture I hear some of you say!!!! (pretty big token gesture I would have said!)


This is a textbook topic for thses Uni students - It's there in B&W - China along with Nigeria and others is one of the worst in the world!!! These kids know this -
You should give them credit for what they do know instead of slamming them all the time. I have lots of excellent debate sessions with my students - they're aware of their country's problems - make no bones about that!!! .............. but what of the other 2 souls who were not forthcoming ???? ....buzhidao!!!

wozFROMoz

[Stephen]

There are two books that could be used for disscussion work

Discussions A-Z intermediate

Discussions A-Z advanced

Sorry, can't remember the authors but can look them up if anyone is interested and can't find them.

Also, possibly P. Ur - Discussions that work

These will give you some topics ranging from serious to not serious at all.

Also try downloading some material from the internet if your students are good.

Hope this helps.
Stephen

[Roger]

I have seen tons of books purportedly conceived to prompt students into debating, but I can't really recommend any in particular (Expressways is currently a top seller, even the good old New Concept English is very suitable, yet the results...), so, in order to give Chris a new angle I suggest he use the English-only VCD
FAMILY ALBUM USA and watch the episodes one at a time and try to conduct some discussion on the contents of the VCD.
I did something like this with quite some success. The story actually puts just about every anti-Western bias Chinese have upside down - family life, hard work, the role of women in society, how to become a celebrity, how to write a good book etc.
I am sure Chris has the talent to turn this into a lively discussion forum!

[arioch36]

Thanx for the input, more is always welcomed. Like I said, the same book will be used for writing and debating, maybe every other week.

I love it when someone says, "You must not have been in China long because [ such and such a view]" My last school was a high school, but before that I taught sophomores, we did debating a lot of the last semester, groups of six (this time I might do groups of four, but I am not sure if the group dynamics work well) and it worked well.
Of course, you always have some lazy students, but they were great, overall. Like i said, I feel the biggest lack is for them all to have common reference material. Three classes of 30 + I really don't want to pull five essays about one topic of the net and print them all. I would be intersted in knowing more about the A-Z book. Family Album... I guess I would have to think about how to use it, I only saw the first couple episodes, as I almost never use a book in oral english.
For the final, each group of six was divided into groups of three, and they had to do a position paper, and present in class in whatever format they wanted. They had to interview a foreigner and an appropriate Chinese worker, and reconcile differences in opinion. Yeah, you had a couple lazy boys who put little effort into it, (always playing computer games like the west) but most worked hard, and some presented the position in imaginative ways

[arioch36]

Uh, GMAT...how much do i owe you???I believe you jest, and I should say Nali Nali, but flattery is much better then sincerity! But why do people always say, "you must be in your honeymoon period" If you enjoy teaching in China (much better then America, ecept the money)

Mr. Oz, are you currently teaching in Shanghai? I am really starting to be seduced by that place. Someone slap me in the face, wake me up...there's no place like home. henan is home there is

[wOZfromOZ]

Arioch36

I believe your real name is Chris so

Dear Chris

Indeed I am in Shanghai and spend my weeks at one of the three campuses of Shanghai Uni from Monday to Friday and then on the weekends my family ( my wife - Shanghainese and baby boy and myself) travel 30 kms to our little weekender.

Our college is affiliated with shanghai Uni, has 46 expat. english teachers and does 10 week modules in all four skill areas. The college is great and the students straight out of teacher heaven! I was a dissatisfied Highschool Chinese Language teacher ( Australia) before coming here. My background before changing to Chinese in 1994 was in English and Geography. I first came to China in 1977, spent a year here in '92 and then another year here in '98 and came again this time in 2001.

As I posted a few weeks back to some person who trys to act professionally here in shanghai, SILC has good conditions - excellent accomodation, good program, facilities ranking as the best in China, and financial reward commensurate with hours worked, qualifications and expereience.

If you want more info - [email protected] is my e-mail.

I'm sure you'd be welcome here!

wOZfromOZ

[Stephen]

Chris

The A-Z books cover quite a range of topics from Love and Money, to xenophobia and zooligy. I'm not sure how long a piece of writing you want, there probably isn't enough in them to provide a basis for 200-300 word essays (at least for Chinese students). But they could possibly be used for paragraph development work after discussion. The main advantage of them is they don't require that your students have done any background reading. Anyway, when Chinese year has finished properly and I'm back at work I'll find and post the ISBNs and authors.

Another thing you could consider is using graded readers and having them read so many chapters (eg. half the book) then discuss what has happened, the characters, what they think will happen and whether they liked it, then write a book report. Then have them finish the book, discuss it and write a book report.

Best wishes
Stephen

[Stephen]

Discussions A-Z Intermediate ISBN 0 521 55981 2
Discussions A-Z Advanced ISBN 0 521 55979 0

Both written by Adrian Wallwork

I should point out that these books does not include essays, but various things, including short readings, which act as the basis for discussion. Generally they are quite interesting, but you probably need supplementary materials to actually produce essay length writing.

[Stephen]

Ted

Chris wrote

"I would be intersted in knowing more about the A-Z book."

Hence I have supplied more information; they are photocopiable resource books (2 pages per topic) which may or may not be what he is looking for.

As for graded readers, the university presumably will set books the students must buy for each course, and presumably could negotiate a bulk order discount for them.

However, if my suggestions do not fit his needs then of course he should disregard them. However, for some reason I cannot find any suggestions for what Chris should do from you on this forum, when you have provided some ideas that are better than mine I may pay a little more attention to the criticisms you have.

Until then.....

[arioch36]

Thank you Stephen for your help. I also am always amazed at someone with no help to offer criticizes someone who does. Whether the book is readily available in Shanghai or not, who knows, though the bookstores there will order it.
As you said, if I decide it is worthwhile, the school will have the students buy it. As for me not having enough time, I think Ted should criticize me, not you. Oops, there I go again, trying to be logocal.

Thanx

[Edward]

Hi all!

Reading this post, I wanted to add something [please move this post to another area if you feel it shouldn't be here]

Lately, in the last month, I have been utilizing a great discussion exercise. I found it on the Net somewhere, can't remember where...

You, the teacher, draw three large and very simple drawings on the board. Each drawing represents an important moment in your life. For example, I drew a very SIMPLE [keep that in mind for this exercise; simplicity is essential] western church [you know, high pitched roof, cross on top, large double door with steps in front]. The second drawing was a baby in a basket [round headed "smiley", covered, in an oval basket/bucket]. The last drawing was a computer.

I then told the students they had to ask me only YES NO questions. I couldn't reply if they asked something like "Where is the church?" But I could answer "Is the church in your home town?" You get the idea.

After they had all asked about 12 questions, and perhaps guessed one or all of the meanings behind the drawings, I then instructed them all to do similar drawing--each to do three that represented IMPORTANT MOMENTS in their lives! Please stress this, as sometimes you have someone draw a stick man, later to say "oh, that's my father..." missing the point entirely [the father would be an influence, but not an important moment] Also be SURE they know to keep it simple in style. Leave them alone, and be also be sure they do not SPEAK to one another for the 10-15 minutes you give them to draw.

Then put them into groups of 3-4-5 to discuss the drawings. You REALLY have to monitor them closely, as you will find they will begin saying MORE than simply "Yes-No" in reply. you have to stop them from giving ANY details. It's the QUESTIONS that are asked that make up the exercise.

Hope you all like this one, because the students all really enjoy it, and most never even guess what the drawings represent; they don't care! They just enjoy the often times amusing questions posed to the "artists".

Michael