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march72
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Guangzhou
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:29 am Post subject: China and Certificates |
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What amazes me is the proportion of jobs advertised in China that want teachers to have an esl certificate.
China pays an amount that is next to nothing, doesn't pay for a flight over there and we all know the infamous foreigner markup price on almost everything available: not to mention the huge bucks schools make and the notorious reputation the ESL industry has of corruption.
What is the best way to get a job in China (yes, I'm coming for the experience but that doesn't mean I want to work for next to nothing) and avoid the mounds and mounds of you know what? |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:59 am Post subject: Re: China and Certificates |
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| march72 wrote: |
What amazes me is the proportion of jobs advertised in China that want teachers to have an esl certificate.
China pays an amount that is next to nothing, doesn't pay for a flight over there and we all know the infamous foreigner markup price on almost everything available: not to mention the huge bucks schools make and the notorious reputation the ESL industry has of corruption.
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I am not at all clear as to what you mean by "...China pays next to nothing..."
Some might consider this a blatant misrepresentation of facts bordering on bad-mouthing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt for the moment.
I do agree with your complaint that they are not paying for you to come over. This has been government policy for 2 decades. Maybe demand for jobs from outside of China is higher than the supply of jobs inside the country; surely when Americans and Chinese at the end of the 1970s threshed out a deal whereby American colleges and universities supply the majority of TEFLers the Americans got something they wouldn't have got without ceding ground to the Chinese on other scores? I think, for people from the U.S.A. with their notoriously parochial views of the world the main benefit of doing a stint in China is not in terms of material recompense but in how this opens their minds.
And, lastly, I have to disagree again with someone who is blaming the Chinese for cheating foreigners. It doesn't happen to me, and it hasn't happened in many years. In the past, there used to be a government policy whereby foreign nationals had to pay double for anything consumed in China (transportation, accommodation, admissions to public venues). This policy has been abandoned in 1996. So what are you talking about?
Finally, we have just had another discussion on how much FTs are "worth"; surely with the kind of education most westerners come here, and their short-term interest in China and a job here they are not entitled to even more pampering when we already get paid at least as much, and most of the time, much more than outer local colleagues?
Have a nice Easter Monday! |
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brsmith15
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1142
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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When I came in June 1999, I was paid 1,500 RMB a month and was happy as a little clam. I taught 20 hours a week and had a school-supplied apartment which was better than my expectations.
At the time I had a small PDA and used it to monitor my spending. At 1500 I was allowed 50 a day and so if one day I spent, say, 60 RMB, the next day I was limited to 40. I got along fine.
If money is your primary motivation, don't come here. As the man called "One Stone" said, all is relative. |
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march72
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks! This Easter Monday has been wonderful!
Actually, you have a lot more historical knowledge than I do. What I'm getting at is this. I spent two years in SK. I didn't go for the culture and I got a lot out of it, and, I'm probably not the only one who will testify to paying (it has nothing to do with government really) a little more than the locals for everything (which adds up.) For instance...being taken all over town in a taxi. I've seen a few in hardship (yes, some earned it by making bad decisions), including myself, and I can't sit here and adopt the opinion that I'm culturally bias and ignorant because Asia is not 'just like America' (although that would have to be Canada for me.)
If you've never been taken advantage of you must be very lucky or just didn't notice: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
It's not so much that they won't pay for my flight over there...I've heard of a few schools buying the ticket and the teacher never gets on it - so they get burnt too. But schools willing to reimburse you (at least half) when you get there are few and far between. It's obvious, by the many negative posts (not all of them posted by positive people!), that a lot of 'things' can happen between the start of a contract and it's end: like getting stiffed.
(Wouldn't life be nice without a constant fight for one-up-manship?)
Your last point has merit for sure. A lot of teachers try to do short-term money grabs (and no, China isn't the place to do it.) But that is not my goal. I want to come for a long cultural exposure and I don't expect to get rich teaching. But, it seems, from my limited experience, finding situations of equal exchange (I'm coming to teach and learn/we're happy to have you:do a decent job) are not the easiest situations to find.
This brought me to my last point (I don't know if you saw it)...the question, in my mind, still remains. Where, oh, where shall I find a good group of people to work with? |
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march72
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| brsmith15 wrote: |
When I came in June 1999, I was paid 1,500 RMB a month and was happy as a little clam. I taught 20 hours a week and had a school-supplied apartment which was better than my expectations.
At the time I had a small PDA and used it to monitor my spending. At 1500 I was allowed 50 a day and so if one day I spent, say, 60 RMB, the next day I was limited to 40. I got along fine.
If money is your primary motivation, don't come here. As the man called "One Stone" said, all is relative. |
That's very encouraging to read brsmith15. I don't expect to get rich at all - not even close! Just looking to avoid unreasonable and/or bad situations.
Actually, as far as getting rich, I was hoping to give some time away!
Thanks. |
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cujobytes
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Zhuhai, (Sunny South) China.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| When I came in June 1999, I was paid 1,500 RMB a month |
Sukaaa. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Even though there is no longer an official of doubling the price for foreigners...it is a practice that is still very much alive and rearing it's ugly head...example..the other day my girl went to a massage (legit) place and was quoted a price...I wnet back with her later and was told for a foreingner it is three times the price...and I am not three times her size..
While it is true that China does not pay the most..you can make a respectable wage here..unlike some others..anywhere I have gone..cultural experience or just for the exercise of expanding the mind of this old American...I have had my eye on the coin..after all it finances all my past times...and good times...
There are a number of tatics that one can take to get the good jobs...many fake degree or certs..some apply at job fairs and are lic. teachers...and that will get you the best paycheck.. and others try and work for more than one employer at a time...
I think the best way to get the better paying jobs is to follow the money...check the pay first before dreaming of going to the new school..set the cash intake as the deciding factor...if in country wait until right before the term begins and then barter...but for the most part..folks get screwed in their first job and learn the "Art of the Chinese Deal" their second time at bat... |
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Hari Seldon
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| march72 wrote: |
| ...What I'm getting at is this. I spent two years in SK...and, I'm probably not the only one who will testify to paying...a little more than the locals for everything (which adds up.)... |
I've been in Korea for almost a year and I rarely pay more than Koreans for goods or services. |
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2 over lee
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, I agree with the OP. However, for better or for worse they will accept any fake certification. I had any number of FT's wanting to copy my CELTA cert, which, I must say is a certificate alarmingly easy to copy! |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:54 am Post subject: Re: China and Certificates |
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| Roger wrote: |
| I am not at all clear as to what you mean by "...China pays next to nothing..." |
It was quite clear to me. Some jobs in China pay as little as 3,000 RMB a month! In HK domestic helpers from the Philippines get $3,000 HK a month (thus around 3,300 RMB). All they have to do for that is to clean, cook, and shop for a few hours a day, six days a week. That is most likely what is meant by 'next to nothing'. It is certainly how I interpreted it.
The original poster need have no fear about certification, however. Most teachers on the Mainland would not even be able to spell the word. |
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andrew_gz
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 502
Location: Reborn in the PRC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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"Most teachers on the Mainland would not even be able to spell the word."
Nonsense but funny. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: China and Certificates |
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| Zero Hero wrote: |
| The original poster need have no fear about certification, however. Most teachers on the Mainland would not even be able to spell the word. |
| Zero Hero wrote: |
| Also, the very order of food in (so-called) western restaurants in China is strange. They tend to bring out the desert, then the main course, then the starter. |
In my experience, (so-called) Western restaurants in China serve unappetizing food. But such food does not necessarily have the consistency of sand. 
Sorry, ZH. But I saved this one as an example to use in teaching. Chinese students seem to love it. |
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