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[tarzaninchina]

I found out with some discussion with some Chinese that there is nothing in China permitting teachers the right to refuse to teach. This, of course, is in the context of extremely troublesome students.

As a result, they must teach them. Therefore, if a student is causing problems the teachers ignore them, make them sit at the back of the room, etc.

Interesting. This is in accordance of the Chinese maxim of not creating waves.

PS: I did do a brief search to see if this had already been mention in similarly-related threads, but found zippo.

[waxwing]

[latefordinner]

Interesting observation, TinC. I don't know that this is policy, but it is consistent with what I've found speaking with CTs. It's one of the reasons why so many of the kids of middle school age seem such useless students. I used to think it was just a function of that particular time of life (teenagers are from hell, not that I ever was etc), but I've begun to believe that it is at least partly a function of learned behavior.
FWIW, I've walked out on one class in 3 years. Something must have been siad about that, because the following week, the regular home room teacher was there to keep an eye on things. He was sleeping in the corner, and I politely told the class not to wake him up.

[benno]

funny
i walked out of a class today
students not listening to me, very rude, so *beep* them
and they are mature medical students!!
generally they are fun to teach and quite active in class, but it must be the weather or maybe they are thinking of their summer holidays, but whatever i am now having an early lunch

i have no problem kicking a student out of class!

[Alex_P]

This is a very interesting posting that I believe many persons teaching or considering teaching in China.

Actually, it is a matter of law -- the Revisions to the Education Act of 1949 that were done in 1996 when nine (9) years of schooling was made mandatory for all students in China.

Part of the rules that when with the law stipulated that Chinese students cannot be put out of school a priori, suspended, expelled, and the like -- not in the government middle schools, not in the mixed semi-private schools and not in company schools that benefit from any kind of government assistance. Purely private schools MAY put children out for a variety reasons.

Nonetheless, as you watch your Chinese colleagues you will quickly learn the ones that are masters at controlling in classroom.

As for walking out of a classroom, well, sometimes it actually may be necessary.

Good thread.

[tw]

I was told about a couple instances of how a particular FT handled misbehaving students.

(1) Called up the student to come to the front of the class. Then, asked other students to name animals. Naturally "dog" and "pig" were called out. The teacher made the misbehaving student acted out a dog, including walking around the front of classroom on hands and knees. He didn't ask nicely, he barked out the order like a drill sargeant. The student was humiliated beyond imagination.

(2) After threatening a student that unless he was to start behaving, the teacher would call the kid's father. When that failed, the FT walked out of the classroom and into the office. He asked for the parent's mobile number and called the parent -- with the student crying and begging him not to do so. The student subsequently behaved well for a month.

I should point out that the FT was teaching in a private language school.

[kev7161]

During the last couple of weeks at my former school (how I love saying that!), I had finished testing so was just showing DVDs to my classes. One particularly troublesome class decided on talking instead of watching the movie. I gave them one warning to be quiet, but they continued to talk, so I turned off the movie and told them to have fun with their convesations. Then they stop talking naturally. Two boys tried to leave the classroom, so I told them to sit down. They looked as if they were going to challenge me so I went out to the office next door to get their head teacher (remember in a previous thread where I was exasperated that my "authority" was meaningless and kids would only shape up when a Chinese teacher was present?). He was off to the bathroom having a smoke I suppose. By the time I had returned to the classroom, the students had locked the door. Foolishly, they had not locked the big, sliding windows to their class. I opened the window and told the student in the front to unlock the door but he wouldn't.

This was about the time their head teacher returned. I showed him the problem. Of course, they were quick to open the door for him. I went inside, picked up the DVD player, and never returned to that class. There was no punishment, no reduction of pay, no comments or inquiries.

If schools are stupid enough to not concede that sending a bad egg out of the classroom can work miracles, then I fully support leaving the class. Maybe not to the extreme I did above, but make sure you write a full report on what happened, date and time, student(s) involved, etc. Get a good Chinese teacher friend for you to translate it into Chinese. Make a copy for your own records. Go to your department director and to the head teacher and have them sign and date both copies. Then make more copies so they get one each, and each student gets one (or maybe their parents?). Then go to the principal's office and give him/her a copy. If you do this consistently, then maybe, MAYBE someone will get the message and try to do something about the situation. Or maybe you'll be told you are a bad teacher and be fired.

[latefordinner]

TW that sounds like fun. I've had a bit of fun too at students' expense, and sometimes it has worked. More often it hasn't, it has simply entrenched the hostility/distrust/whatever they already felt for the foreign face. YMwillnodoubtV, but I've found it's more effective for me to either remain silent (or withdraw entirely) and leave the kids to figure it out than to waste the energy getting upset.

I've also asked to call kids' parents, but the admins at various schools have refused to give me the phone numbers. They don't want anyone making waves! Talk about being part of the problem.

[tw]

The worst students I ever dealt with were these 12 or 13 year old boys I "taught" at my second school. One in particular was the worst of the worst. One day his mother came to sit in his lessons (that I wasn't teaching) and I was told that he was extremely well behaving. Well, according to his classmates later he needed to let out his suppressed energy after his mother had left. So he pulled the old water-bucket-falls-down-when-one-opens-the-door trick but with a trash can. Then, when I went to the WC to get the other boys who used going to the WC as an excuse for skipping classes, he changed my clock's time and I ended up finishing class 20 minutes early. When I went to the front desk the staff asked me why I was done so early and pointed that I still had 20 minutes to go. His classmates later told me that he was the one who changed my clock.

Another boy, who constantly disrupted my classes (never brought his lesson materials let alone pencil or pen) was kicked out numerous times by yours truly. He would make a scene outside of classrooms and never showed any shame nor remorse (telling students to stand in the hallway doesn't work too well it seems). When one of the teachers decided to talk to him, he started making lies about me and accused me of teaching them swear words in class and talking about having sex with prostitutes!!!

I started teaching these boys when they joined summer camp. When the school tried to have them back for weekend lessons during their school term, they would ask "Is so-and-so coming back? Yes? OK, I will come back too." They were the nightmare class and I was so relieved when the school finally decided to drop me from their lessons.

I don't care what people say. I just hate teaching kids -- especially those around 11 - 13.

[latefordinner]

TW, sounds like some of my middle schools this year. I asked a teacher there why it was that kids in primary school, 2 to 4 years younger had no trouble doing the same tasks that the middle school kids couldn't handle. Higher English level? No, language abilities were comparable, but work ethic and class behaviour were the concerns. The teacher then opined that perhaps the students at her school all had a lower IQ. Wish I had an answer for that one.
OTOH, at another school, (one of the star primaries in my city) I did have some fun teaching the sixes. Most of the class was doing well, but the usual suspects at the back were, well, being their usual adorable selves. I was teaching become/became, and conjunctions. Yang Li Wei became a pilot, then he became a taikonaut, that sort of thing. There were some workmen in the yard below. I asked various students what they wanted to become when they grow up. One girl will study medicine and then become a doctor. One young man will become a businessman and make a lot of money. Then I came to the back of the class... I led them out to the yard, and did the exercise in the open air. Then I took a shovel from one of the workmen, and had one of the darlings come and shovel some stone a bit. "He played games and slept in class, and he became a worker..." Point made, but I guess I was merely preaching to the choir.

[tw]

Well, from talking with Chinese people familiar with the Chinese education system, it seems middle school students (especially junior middle school students) are the worst bunch. I guess it has to do with that rebellous nature we all went through when we reached puberty. That yeah-whatcha-gonna-do-I-ain't-afraid-of-you mentality. I have heard of middle school students beating up Chinese teacher. When I was in Qingdao two years, I decided to check out a disco one night. I only stayed for 10 minutes but I was shocked at how young many of the patrons were. They looked no more than 16 or 17 and they were supposed to have school the next day. It was not until when I was talking with some restaurant workers that I learned that many Chinese parents are afraid that being strict could drive the children into running away or even suicide . So, they let the kids go wild.

[englishgibson]

[shanghai'd]

i have absolutely no objections to kicking out a student from my class if they are being unruly or disrespectful. because i have young students, this action puts the fear of god and their teacher into them. this being said, i have been teaching for three years and have only had to remove a handful of students from my classes...if the problem persists then it no longer becomes a problem of yours, but a problem for the administration. usually the parents have to be involved, and then 'face' becomes an issue. if a parent is disgraced, you know that the kid'll hear about it at home.

discipline is a tricky one. if they have never really been disciplined before by a teacher (especially a foreign one) they probably won't take to it very kindly. just be tough. i find yelling also works!

[tw]

[tony lee]