|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: Is Saudi that different? |
 |
|
Cleo wrote on another thread
| Quote: |
| If someone has lived in the Middle East, and studied it somewhat, they are better prepared than most, yet, Saudi Arabia is incredibly strange for nearly everyone to cope with at first. Muslims and non Muslims alike deal with culture shock here, and it can be quite extreme. |
Other than a runway at the airport. I have not spent time in KSA. But is it really that different than the rest of the middle east. Specifically I am comparing it to Qatar where I spent 18 months. I have also travelled(not lived) in a quite a few ME countries. 12 years in Turkey( not ME but Islamic.... well sort of).
I know KSA is nothing like Egypt, Syria, Oman, Bahrain, etc. How does it compare with its wahabi neighbour, Qatar?
When I first arrived in Qatar it really did freak me out and I thought about leaving after a few weeks. Of course I know the obvious differences between Qatar and KSA(cinemas, booze souq, etc) but is it really that different? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I know KSA is nothing like Egypt, Syria, Oman, Bahrain, etc. |
Actually, I wouldn't say KSA is 'nothing like' any of these countries. Certainly there are huge differences between say, Egypt and KSA, but there are also some broad similarities too. Obviously there's religion (even if it is interpeted very differently), language and some basic cultural norms too. Notions such as gender segregation, a strong divide between public and private, the importance of 'modesty for women - these exist in all Arab societies, but are more extreme in the Gulf, and in KSA in particular. To speak in broad strokes, I would say there is a fairly big difference between the wealthy Gulf Arab countries and non-Gulf Arab countries, but the differences between the GCC countries are relatively small in comparisson.
| Quote: |
| How does it compare with its wahabi neighbour, Qatar? |
I've not been to Qatar, but from what I've heard, Saudi and Qatari society are very similar. I'd venture to guess that the lifestyle of your 'typical' Riyadh family would be quite similar to that of a family in Doha, and probably Abu Dhabi or Kuwait too. After all, these countries are largely artificial: there is probably more cultural difference between, say, Riyadh and Jeddah than there is between Riyadh and Doha.
I think the main differences are not with regard to the local society, but to the 'lifestyle' enjoyed (or not) by expats. Unlike some of its neighbours, KSA does not pretend to be all liberal for the benefit of transient white folks. Whether or not this is a good thing depends on your attitude. So whereas an 'expat' in most Gulf cities might find the 'rough edges' of the local culture smoothed out for him or her, in KSA it's pretty much take it or leave it. There's also the fact that whereas about 80% of the population in the UAE, Qatar and Kuwait is foreign, in KSA it's only about 30%.
| Quote: |
| Of course I know the obvious differences between Qatar and KSA(cinemas, booze souq, etc) but is it really that different? |
Hard to say unless you've experienced both, and even then everyone's experiences are personal. I would say working conditions are pretty similar from one Gulf country to another - I reckon there is much more variation between individual institutions in the same country than in general terms, from country to country. Regarding 'lifestyle' in general, again I suppose that depends on you: if you're a woman who likes to drive and can't stand having to 'cover' in public, or if you're a man who likes to drink in bars and go to the cinema every weekend, then yes, you might experience a very big difference between Qatar or UAE on the one hand, and KSA on the other. However, for someone like myself, who doesn't drive and doesn't much care for public entertainment, I reckon I'd have much the same lifestyle anywhere in the Gulf as I do in Riyadh. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 409
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| For me, they're all basically the same. It might as well be KSA. If I was in Bahrain or Dubai I could get tempted into spending more than I should. My 5-year plan would be in tatters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Is Saudi that different? |
|
|
| dmb wrote: |
| ..I know KSA is nothing like Egypt, Syria, Oman, Bahrain, etc. How does it compare with its wahabi neighbour, Qatar? |
My dear Dmb Afandi
Merhaba
To sum up for your questions, here my answer:
The difference between Qatar and KSA is like the difference between two tribes, one is more open-minded and the other is more conservative.
| Quote: |
| .. I have also travelled(not lived) in a quite a few ME countries. 12 years in Turkey( not ME but Islamic.... well sort of). |
Dmb, I wonder if Turkey is ready for the membership of EEC, or do you think it needs more time and preparation before joining the EEC?
Do you see any major difference between Turkish culture and Scottish culture?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The question is 'different in what'?
In terms of work, working conditions, students and management, there is probably much more difference between individual institutions in the Gulf than between the different countries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I wonder if Turkey is ready for the membership of EEC, |
Me, I'm wondering if ABBA knows that the EEC has not been in existance for several years now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cleopatra wrote: |
| ..Me, I'm wondering if ABBA knows that the EEC has not been in existance for several years now. |
Me, King Cobra 007, I�am wondering why Cleo always miss-understand me and miss-interpret my sentences?
King Cobra 007 does not mean the EEC which Cleo thinks is! King Cobra meant by EEC the �European Energy Community� and not the �European Economic Community�.
You see Cleo, each time I post, you accuse me of not having adequate understanding of the subtleties of the English language!
Imagine yourself discussing a topic using a 2nd or 3rd languge! It seems you forgot that English is my 3rd language, and I think, at least, I can communicate with you and understand you, and if I make a mistake, at least people will not blame me because I am not a native speaker!
Who cares if 007 makes mistakes! Nobody cares! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| It seems you forgot that English is my 3rd language, |
Um, no, it's painfully obvious from your every sentence that English is not your first language. Which is fine - until you try to make lame jokes and to be sarcastic in said language. Mistakes are one thing - some of our 'native speaker' posters excel in those - attempts at humour are quite another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Prodiigy
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Saudi Arabia is noticeably different from other Gulf nations.
Turkey, although a Muslim country has a completely different vibe and choice of lifestyle to any countries in that region.
Strict segregation of government and religion in Turkey is in direct contrast to that which is offered in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE ...
Never been to Kuwait, but a more liberal, tolerant approach to peoples' behaviour and more entertainment choices would be welcome!
Dubai is a great vacation choice.
Their interpretation of Islam and respecting their own culture is important, whilst still inviting businesses to cater to Western tastes in entertainment, art, food, tourism.
During Ramadam, non-Muslims are permitted to eat and drink freely - as long as restaurants reflect this sensitive period.
Architecture is unique - around the creek they have created a great place to chill out, man.
Dearth of oil and sensible, forward-thinking attitudes means the country is planning for the future. Good luck to 'em!
Saudi is starkly, grimly stuck in prehistoric times, reliant on oil and in proud possesion of some Holy sites.
The most striking aspects driving (or walking!!) through the capital is the dustiness, lack of colour and vibrancy, sterility and absence of humour.
Harsh and depressing to experience. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Dubai is a great vacation choice. |
I agree - for footballers' wives or others whose idea of a good holiday is spending a few days in a vulgar, overpriced hotel complete with a choice of nail 'salons', 'Natashas' and brown waiters who know their place and call you 'madam', then you can't do better than Doo-buy.
| Quote: |
| During Ramadam, non-Muslims are permitted to eat and drink freely |
What about non-practising Muslims? Not very liberal to discriminate on the basis of religious upbringing, is it?
| Quote: |
Dearth of oil and sensible, forward-thinking attitudes |
You'll have to admit that the massive subidies from oil-rich Abu Dhabi, not to mention the profiteering from nearby oil wars help a bit though, no?
So tell me, where can I find an embassy of this 'country', Dubai? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Prodiigy
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Excerpt from Cleopatra's Rough Travel Guide
I agree - for footballers' wives or others whose idea of a good holiday is spending a few days in a vulgar, overpriced hotel complete with a choice of nail 'salons', 'Natashas' and brown waiters who know their place and call you 'madam', then you can't do better than Doo-buy.
As opposed to .... the luxuriant and fragrant travel mecca of ... Saudi Arabia (commonly referred to as The Desert) you mean ?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Prodiigy
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote :
You'll have to admit that the massive number of my posts and cut 'n' pastes complement my shrill writing style a bit though, no?
Yes.
Last edited by The_Prodiigy on Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Prodiigy
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Another gem ...
Not very liberal to discriminate on the basis of religious upbringing, is it?
No, ma'am, one would most certainly agree.
When one compares that stance to Operation KSA ...definitely liberal and overtly tolerant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't recall ever saying that KSA was a prime tourist location, much less that it was remotely liberal or tolerant.
One thing I will say in its favour, however, is that, unlike Dubai, paradise of C list celebrites and gunrunners, it never claimed to be any of the above.
BTW I'm still looking for an address for the Embassy of Dubai. Still no information on that count? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Prodiigy
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cleopatra wrote: |
I don't recall ever saying that KSA was a prime tourist location, much less that it was remotely liberal or tolerant.
One thing I will say in its favour, however, is that, unlike Dubai, paradise of C list celebrites and gunrunners, it never claimed to be any of the above.
BTW I'm still looking for an address for the Embassy of Dubai. Still no information on that count? |
Did I say it was ..well, keep looking ...keep looking, Cleo.
Don't STOP 'til ya find it ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
