Job Discussion Forums

hgwright · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 8

I have been dealing with what I felt was a reputable school. I have provided them with all the documents they needed for the Z visa, including the hated medical exam. They told me from the very beginning that they would provide the Z visa. Today I received an email from my contact, who told me the following:

"I went to the foreign affairs office of Hebei province, they told me there have been some changes temporarily about the invitation at present. Right now they only offer us" F" visa for half year. The" F" visa is kind of visitor visa which is valid for half year.Holding the "F" visa you are allowed to work in China. So in that case, after you receive the invitation, you only can get a " F" visa for half year. But don't worry about your visa, before the visa expiring, we will be responsible for your visa renewing. The invitation will be sent on Monday and it will reach you within 7days."

Now, from extensive reading on this site, I know that working on the F visa is illegal. And I went through all of this effort so that I would not work illegally, something I refuse to do. Now, all is not lost because I am actually accompanying my husband to China, where he has a job that will support us both. (unfortunately I am not listed as an accompanying family member on his visa.)

My question - is this for real? Should I run or should I go with this? I'm going to China regardless, even if it is on an L visa. If this situation is not right and proper, then I can always find another school and do the visa run to Hong Kong, although I was hoping to avoid that route.

I realize these questions have been asked ad nauseum here, but I need some specific advice for this specific situation.

Hgw

nolefan · Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 1458 Location: on the run

While I will not discuss the legality of working on an F visa, I will confirm that Hebei province is having a few issues issuing Z visas at the moment. This has been an ongoing problem since february of this past year when they changed over to the new system.

Most schools are getting around this problem by getting their teachers the aforementioned F visa with the blessing of the proper authorities for 6 months and will either renew it then or manage to get the Z if it's all cleared up. The other way they've been doing it is by sending the teachers to HK to get the Z there.
Again, I will not comment on the legality of this practice as it is a grey zone but that is how things are at the moment and everyone is fully aware of it.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

hgwright, it may interest you to check out deezy's posts at www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=283775&highlight=#283775 and read the next page too.

virago · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:03 am Post subject:

Actually it's not illegal to 'lecture' on an F visa for a short period of time but as a teacher it would be 'illegal'.

Anyway I would trust nolefan's advice. He's a regular with reputation here.

it might be worth posting the school's name or doing a search to see if there are issues working for them.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Roger is publicly making an U-turn in his opinion on the validity of the business visa!

Disclaimer: I am NOT condoning the abuse of so-called 'F' visas for the purpose of working illegally. If you decide on your own you can work in China holding a business visa then you are an ii and do not enjoy my moral support!
I therefore laud the OP's intention to get a clear picture.

I got hold of a GUIDE TO EMPLOYMENT... in China that has all the relevant rules on employing FTs.
I can quote the relevant English text (a translation from the CHinese original) but the book at present is not with me.
Anyway, the gist of the law body in that book is this:

If your employer has a LICENCE TO HIRE FTs then he can hire you for up to six months on a business visa, LEGALLY. The PSB will, of course, have to be in the picture.

I do not know, however, whether they can renew your visa upon its expiry. Nor do I know whether you need a medical examination to obtain this visa. It is issued by the PSB. Thus, you will be alright PROVIDED THEY GRANT YOU A RESIDENT'S PERMIT. I am not clear either whether you stand to be given the FEC. I would guess not.

nolefan · Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 1458 Location: on the run

hgwright · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 8

Thanks everyone for the information. Since my original post I have had confirmation from another person that Hebei is having problems issuing Z visas. The PSB does seem to be in the picture and I do believe the school had every intention of getting me the Z visa. They are licensed to hire FTs.

I will keep you posted on how things progress. I am certainly hesitant, but I think I will proceed with caution.

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

I'm going to go against the flow here, and suggest a bit of (probably overstated) caution. This does seem to be a problem specific (and endemic) to Hebei, but at the end of the day, do you really need Hebei? Do any of us?
Let's consider; when you give up the securities of the Z visa and FE process, do you do so temporarily, or for so long as you both shall abide together? Do you get anything in return? Do you leave ourself open to any of the well known abuses of process for which our hosts are so famous? If the school does try to pull a fast one, is the local PSB going to be there to adjudicate matters as best they can, or be there with their hands out for the most they can get?
My own experience is somwhat coloured, but I'd suggest getting as far away as possible. When an employer does the bait and switch as early and as clumsily as this, something has to be wrong.

hgwright · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 8

Unfortunately, Hebei is my only option. I am relocating to China with my husband, and his work is in the capital city of Hebei, Shijiazhuang, which from what I have been reading, doesn't have the greatest reputation.

I'm still on the fence on this, but I am running out of time to decide. My gut is telling me to use extreme caution....

virago · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject:

hgwright · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 8

Actually I meant that the city itself has a sort of reputation for having schools that may treat FTs badly... But the school that I have been in contact with seems to have an okay reputation, or at least I haven't heard otherwise.

Thanks for the advice though, I do understand that I am entering a society very different from my own, fortunately it is not the first time I have done so, I hope I can draw on previous insights.

Volodiya · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:07 am Post subject:

For a somewhat more detailed discussion of the provisions of Chinese Law regarding work, and the F visa, you could have a look at this thread-

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=26836

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

Volodiya:
I was thinking the same thing, but perhaps the opposite is true. Perhaps we should wait and see how this Hebei circus plays out.

hgwright · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 8

Volodiya, Thanks for the link, I have been away from Daves for a few days and didn't see that thread. My head is spinning after reading all of that Chinese law....

I have received the F visa from the Toronto Chinese Consulate. They looked at my invitation letter (all in Chinese, I am uncertain of what it said), and my application, asking for a 6 month single entry F visa. They processed it without question.

I will be leaving for China in 6 days. I will post here with info on what happens next regarding the visa and residence permit.

Hgw

Volodiya · Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject:

That's great news. Of course, we'll be following with interest what happens when you get here regarding the process of documenting you to work in China- obtaining the FEC (Foreign Expert Certificate), and the RPF (Residence Permit for Foreigners).