Job Discussion Forums

[btait]

My fiancee and I have been in China for about 2 months now on visitors Visas. I have been negotiating to teach marketing/sales and human resources courses at the collegiate level through CIE (cambridge international examinations) here in Tianjin.

The whole process has been enlightening, invigorating, infuriating and depressing all at once. I am a pretty systematic guy. I do my research, oftentimes online, determine a course of action that makes sence depending upon whataver our goals are and then I get to work.

Enter the world of China, where laws are guidlines and the real "laws" are determined by the social contract/fabric of Guanxi (sp?).

To use an analogy: I can remember getting a bike for Christmas when I was abuot 14. I couldn't wait to put it together. Of course, the directions were hardly interesting to me. Eventually, I relented and used them, because I was more interesting in riding the bike than being a mechanic. Walla!!! Follow the directions step by step and it works!!

In China, it seems when you get a bike for christmas the directions are thrown out. Instead, you call your mechanic friend and ask him if he knows how to put it together. The mechanic friend would never suggest the possibility of taking a look at the directions. Rather, if he didn't know he would try to get in touch with someone who does. If that person didn't know, they would make some kind of arrangement with the PSB to ride the bike around town with ony one wheel.....

So, it seems like the school I am negotiating with, instead of simply looking up the "directions" for how to legally (state definition of legal) obtain a z-visa, working/residence permit, they would rather call some friends who don't know how to get a z-visa either.

Now, I have given them step by step instructions based upon what I have found through hours and hours of reading. When they look at the directions thier eyes gloss over in a state of utter confusion. Silly American...why would you follow the legal guidelines when I have a friend of a friend who can get this done....blah blah blah.

So...I am in a position now where I will get a z-visa, resident permit and working papers through some organization called FESCO. FESCO is a state run HR company that does registrations for foreign companies setting up local offices. FESCO has no relationship with SAFEA. Has anyone ever heard of FESCO?

The school I am negotiating with has some serious Guanxi...they are the only school in China that teaches Cambridge Business Diploma courses in English. The were set up with the full blessing and help of the city of Tianjin. So, should I be worried about FESCO? Is my thinking too ordered and Western? Should I give in to the social contracts (like the old wild west) that seem to order all relationships (instead of state laws) here instead of fighting against them? I am in a quandry....I know there are no easy answers. Insight, however, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all!!

Brian and Diane

[Roger]

They enlisted FESCO? That's a joke, man!

FESCO is a leftover from the heady days of China's communist daily life routines with Chinese characteristics. It was the ONLY official agency that foreign businesses, including diplomatic corps, were allowed to draw personnel from. FESCO would supply staff at an inflated price, and embassies would thus be flooded with carefully chosen spies, for example.

Now they are in the work visa procurement line?

Hilarious!

On the other hand, your analogy with a bike and the instructions is fitting. Many times experienced. Don't worry too much - many schools pay through their noses for foreign teachers' overstaying their initial visa... it's 500 a day.
But connections sometimes help reduce these outlays.

[nolefan]

I know what you mean... I have been here for two weeks and I am already facing similar issue. The school my wife and I came to simply forgot to put a freaking sink in the appartment... can u imagine a kitchen without a sink?
to make things better, I am trying to get them to get me my own adsl account and it is like pulling teeth. They don't understand that all you need is a phone call to ask the telecom guys to show up and wire the house... they are waiting for a freind of a freind who teaches computer science to come by and handle the issue....but I've learned in two weeks to shrug it off and say: "it's china...

[NumberOneSon]

I tried looking up FESCO and found a lot of dead links as
well as a few that still work if I us the Google cache. Never
heard of them before, so it was interesting.

http://www.fesco-canhelpyou.com/index.htm
http://www.fesco-training.com.cn/international-e/e-gaishu.htm

Seems that they were/are some kind of all encompassing
Chinese/Western cultural exchange-human resources
organization which does everything from hiring Chinese
for foreign companies to teaching tea culture.

FESCO claims to have been started sometime in 1979.

Apparently some group called China Education Exchange
joined them in March 2003 to provide ESL teaching and
business "internships" for foreigners in China.

Unfortunately, one of the "dead links" on the old CEE
webpage is the one labeled "Getting Paid", so I
have no idea how that works. Their more current
pages don't give much detail about pay.

Here's a more current webpage:

www.chinaeducationexchange.org

These guys say they don't support you after they place
you unless you pay them US$500 for continued support.

In addition, they would love to charge you US$300 for
a 3-day orientation to China that they "strongly
recommend" to those visiting China the first time.

CEE claimed in an old webpage that a guy from the U.S.,
a Tiron Gibbs, was in charge of their marketing.

Now, a name like Tiron sounds like a contraction of
tire-iron to me, so I'd be careful dealing with that
guy.

[Roger]

NOlefan, your telephone line...
...it's not that easy (perhaps now, any more) as you imagine!
These days most people have a cellphone, so some schools scrimp and save on telephone wiring outlays.

Telecom is a monopoly, and as such it has the biggest number of enemies in the world - virtually every citizen here.
They never send bills - you have to trek to their office and pay your dues whose amount you have to ask them there to tell you.
Sometimes they give you a call informing you the end of the monthly period is near, so if you don't get the hint they simply cut your line off.
I rented a split line so I can simultaneously go online and receive phone calls at home. If you are not a local resident, you have to pay an enormous deposit into their account, a requirement lots of people circumvent by bribing other locals to act as their guarantor.
When I wanted to cancel my contract because I have now access to the Internet from my university computer, they accepted it immediately, cancelling it on the day, which was three or four days into the new period; of course, they got their monthly installment from my bank account three or four days earlier. You get no refund.
And in big towns, telephone bills often go unpaid, so the line is dead when you move in a flat; you will have to pay the previous tenant's telephone costs for the last month of his living there.

[struelle]

[MERMAID_AVE]

I found an article about Ti Ron Gibbs, owner of Global Education Corp, in the June Chicago Business, it seems he is on the verge of bankruptcy and hired more people and raised his prices to try to make up for his previous losses. He would not let me out of a contract even wehn they changed the dates and I lost 4500.00.

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/article.pl?portal_id=47&mpid=47&article_id=23834