Job Discussion Forums

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

Slavery and Exploitation of Non Chinese on Taiwan!

logician · Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 70

markholmes · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 661 Location: Wengehua

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

As teachers it is our responsibility to teach our students respect for others and ourselves.
Perhaps if we had done a better job the current practice of state sponsored slavery, explotation and racial prejudice would not be so prevalent in Taiwanese society.
Change starts with education. We are here to do more than fill our pockets off the scraps thrown to us. We are here to teach and if we would take the time and put in the effort to do our jobs in way that we know it should be done, Taiwan could be a great place for everyone who lives here.
You will find that locally run institutions like the ones mentioned above tend to have a pro occupational government slant and administered in such a way as to promote the pre existing system of racism, incompetence and corruption that is Taiwanese society.
Dave's ESL cafe is one of the few places where teachers who oppose racism, incompetence and corruption on Taiwan are not censured but allowed to speak the truth that is Taiwan.
We are not just teachers here on Taiwan we are migrants/immigrants and equal human beings as our Chinese overlords with the same rights.
If you ignore the oppression of your fellow immigrants / migrants on Taiwan then you have to accept it when it is applied to you.
Good luck!
A.

Ki · Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 475

I certainly have had my passport withheld whilest in Taiwan and certainly not for any legitimate reasons, like for a visa. It was from a recruiter. That was a long time ago now and I was very naive then. But no, I am smart enough to realise that any difficulties that I have here pale in comparison to those immigrants from SE Asia.

markholmes · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 661 Location: Wengehua

A. You talk about teachers on Taiwan as being one homogenous group which clearly they are not. If you want to talk about the majority then we are refering to those that stay for between one and two years. This group makes up at least 80% of the total (I can't say for certain but I don't think this figure is too far off). Most of those are fresh out of their respective countries and most are concerned with dealing with a new country and a new language, trying to find somewhere to live and basically trying to survive until the first pay cheque comes in.

You support a worthy cause and to an extent (for interest sake) it is a good topic of conversation here. But as I said before this forum is mostly for newbies and the inexperienced, and for them you are just blurring the more relevant information provided and confusing people. That is not helpful.

It is obvious you are a person with a good heart, although you sound a little bitter. You need an audience that will listen to your cause but this ain't it.

Miyazaki · Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 635 Location: My Father's Yacht

I'm glad Aristotle makes posts.

It adds to the flavour and diversity of this forum - which is pretty dead and seems to be dominated by only a few people.

Keep it up Aristotle - I appreciate it.

Chris Smith · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 86

Miyazaki. It may be that you are looking for the wrong thing here. If you want to discuss local politics or showbiz gossip etc., then maybe Forumosa is the place for you. Over there you will find a whole list of different topics to discuss and this may be just what you're looking for. Dave's is just for esl related stuff. It's mainly for helping (new) teachers with up-to-date information in this field in this area. It isn't supposed to be a source of entertainment, though sometimes the posts here can cause some hilarity.

Miyazaki · Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 635 Location: My Father's Yacht

Hi, Chris.

I can appreciate your point of view.

Since I'm a migrant worker here in Taiwan, I can see how Aristotle's posts relate are relevant. I think such posts add to the forum rather than take away from it.

I think it best to try not to censor people and let the mods decide what is acceptable for the forum.

Also, I suppose if Dave or the moderators take issue with the content of certain posts, they'll just remove them.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Sorry Chris and Mark but Miyazaki is right. This BB is (ultimately) a way of attracting viewers towards the advertising. As such both educational/informational and entertaining posts are useful. Aristotle's posts are generally interesting and informative. The majority of viewers may very well not be newbies here. And in any case newbies and the inexperinced are probably just as, if not more, interested in local and global social and political issues as are the old and jaded.

Keep them posts coming Ari,

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

Does anyone know if Aristotle currently lives in Taiwan? Does he currently teach EFL? Where has he taught in the past?

Kinyonga · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 4 Location: Minnesota

Hello All,

This is only my second post here at Dave's. I am by all definitions a newbie. I have been lurking on this board for almost six months now, and I have found the information here to be invaluable. I haven't really posted until now because most of my most pressing questions have been asked and answered by others. But on this I get to be an expert on being a newbie here:

Aristotle: RIGHT ON MAN!

This is the right place for this kind of stuff. I want to know about these things just as much as I do about life and work in Taiwan.
Never forget that for every poster on this board there are a hundred lurkers who are taking your advise and soaking it all in for everything we can get. Often times I find myself skeptical about some of the things Aristotle advises, but his political awareness of the oppression that those who don't carry a passport from a western industrialized country face everyday is one of the things that keeps me coming back.

Yeah, alot of people who do TEFL probably just tisk and turn away when they see this kind of thing going on.

But some of us aren't willing to leave it at that.

My advise: Lead, Follow or Get the 'ell out of the Way

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

As others have stated this is Daves ESL cafe. I think that ESL is the operative word here. It seems pretty obvious to me that posts that relate to ESL jobs, teaching tips, and things that affect the life of foreign teachers here are all relevant. Much of what Aristotle posts here is not relevant to foreign teachers as it quite simply doesn't affect us. This is depsite the fact that his posting it here seems to be his way of suggesting that it is relevant to foreign teachers.

I certainly respect his right to post controversial stuff here but it should be stuff that effects or relates to foreign teachers. In posting stuff about foreign workers (the blue collar workers) in a way that suggests that these matters affect us all, he is being misleading, and this is not appropriate in my opinion. There are limits, and if these limits are not maintained then the value of the forum gets lost. It seems that Aristotle oversteps the limits in some of his posts and these posts should not be removed from the forum, but he should possibly be reminded to keep on track.

Chris Smith · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 86

Maybe I wasn't so clear with my point in the last post. My point is that if you really want to delve into the political affairs of Taiwan there are other forums (like Forumosa) where you will get a large and varied input from posters with a range of knowledge. From such variety you'll be able to read between the lines and get a fairly balanced understanding of the situation here. What's more, most people who want to take part in those forums do care passionately about the subjects being discussed. They will go a long way to prove any points they have, not only with a base statement, but also by supporting, with first hand or quoted examples.

If you take a look at the exchanges between Clark and Aristotle, for example, you will find Clark constantly requests supporting evidence for Aristotle's assertions. Aristotle never squarely supports his points, but simply makes a new unrelated post that happens to fall within his view of Taiwan. Anyone can do what he does. It take just a few minutes idle research to come up with some extreme views and then elaborate on this site. Clark, on the other hand, obviously spends a great deal of time getting real facts http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=28702 to help people who, otherwise, would be non the wiser. Frankly, I wonder how he has the time to make money here.

With regard to the advertizing issue, I think stillnosheep is right about attracting viewers. I am sure Aristotle is being employed to post his weird views because they stir up strong feelings and sometimes a frenzy of responses. All good for Dave's bottom line, but at the cost of spreading misinformation and half truths. I have had several e-mails sent to me from worried prospective teachers who read this stuff and don't know what to believe.

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

Still haven't heard from Aristotle on whether he's in Taiwan and where he's taught ESL in the country (and when).