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malcoml
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Australia
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:59 am Post subject: Re: It keeps getting better |
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So, whats your point, Malcolm? |
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The Dog Ate My Keitai
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I think the point is, some people like to get riled up and angry about something once in a while. Makes you feel alive. Yeah, sure -- I read it and got upset too. Who wouldn't? But the point is, living in Japan you realize that you live in a society that IS xenophobic and does NOT respect human rights.
As someone on the lonelyplanet thread pointed out, you can refer this case to Arudo. He's the authority on the mistreatment of foreigners in Japan.
Otherwise, aside from getting angry, if you're going to read/post/take part in such articles and their ensuing discussion, why not help out by joining the next Amnesty International march in Tokyo.... Or take part in some grass-roots activism like Arudo suggests on his website. Or visit one of the many foreigners being kept in Japanese prisons for various reasons? We all already know that Japan (especially its legal/law enforcement system) is flawed. Maybe doing something about it is what's called for. |
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malcoml
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| I think the main point I got was when one member said in no other country in the world is a immigrant called guest of the country, as so many gaijin are called guests of Japan. Whether you are there for a yesr or 20 you are still know as guest of Japan. I wonder why that is? |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I must say, as much as I like Japan, the more I got to know the country, its language and culture, the less I liked the place. Racism and xenophobia was one of the biggest things.
If you are not Yamato, you are shut out of so many areas of Japanese life, most notably employment, but no matter how fluent or acculturised you become, you will always be an outsider, and will never be regarded as a member of the group. |
So more misguided foreigners whose whole reason for being here and their goal in life is so they can become accepted as a japanese. If i was in their shoes I would be glad that Im not accepted in to their little group. There are a lot of Japanese who dont want to be japanese either.
1. you can get hired for a job without needing to speak any Japanese have any skills except be able to speak English. You only need to look white and have a degree. You get paid to teach and speak a foreign language teach a foreign culture but want to be treated just like them.
2. You are not required to memorise and learn 2000 Kanji
3. You dont have to put up with 6 years of English at a japanese high school by teachers who cant speak English
4. You dont have to put up with sempai-kohai just because people are born before you but they are complete idiots
5. You dont have to put up with bullying or "ijime". Foreign women are not expected to pour tea and make photocopies. Foreign men dony have to do 3 or 4 hours of "service" unpaid overtime
6. Foreigners are not required to sit through three or four hour meetings where nothing gets discussed and there is no agenda
7. Foreigners dont have to pay out millions of yen to buy a gravesite and pay a buddhist monk thousands more to say prayers every few years
8. Foriegners dont have to spend millions of yen on a grave site years in advance.
9. Foreigners can always go back home when they get sick of Japan.
10. You will understand its not peoples fault they cant speak English, its the way they are educated at school.
11. You dont have to learn Keigo, respect language, slang, mens and women's language. osaka-ben.
12. You dont have to put up with interfering in-laws who are often the gorilla in the room when it comes to marital relationships and your spouse taking sides
13. You dont have to look after a demented elderly grandparent who wets herself, has to be bathed and is simply waiting to die. (my 94 year old grandmother in-law took about 2 years to expire and its very stressful on thej family)
I think I would much rather be a long term foreign guest in japan, albeit a gaijin one rather than have to put up with some of the BS that the locals do in their lifetimes. You should be glad that people dont accept you as Japanese becuase that would mean you have to do the same things they do. You cant have your cake and eat it. too
tell me, do you REALLY want to become like a japanese person?
Last edited by Doglover on Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| malcoml wrote: |
| I think the main point I got was when one member said in no other country in the world is a immigrant called guest of the country, as so many gaijin are called guests of Japan. Whether you are there for a yesr or 20 you are still know as guest of Japan. I wonder why that is? |
I have been here for 18 years and I dont consider myself a guest.Japanese stopped asking me when i am going back home years ago. Now they ask if i went back home for a vacation. get married and have kids here and Japanese soon learn that you arent going back to where you came from.
I pay taxes, and in fact pay more in direct and indirect taxes, health insurance, rates, city tax than many Japanese including my students who have part time incomes. I know many foreigners who have bought houses here, pay mortgages and own companies. Many also have Japanese employee working under them. There are even one or two non-ethnic Japanese who are members of parliament in Japan and you have a few Korean-Japanese as well. One is from Finland and is a naturalised Japanese citizen. Foreigners have reached the top of sumo, and some even own sumo stables and train Japanese wrestlers.
Being a foreign guest is all in the mind. But a guest does not get handed a bill for his food and rent, unless his is living in a hotel. I dont think I owe the japanese anything becuase I am a foreigner, and the fact that I pay taxes just like they do also gives me some rights in this country. Unfortunately, they dont give me the right to vote, but you have the same thing in Australia for non-residents.
PS. The police here are brutal thugs, no question about it. some of the younger ones are the worst. Dont forget you dont have to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to become a cop in many countries. Many are just bullies with a badge. You have racist cops in almost every country, including US, Australia, UK and New Zealand. Often its cops who are the thugs, not the victims. Japan is not different and they treat Japanese people the same as foreigners. Foreigners here just cry race and police brutality. |
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The Dog Ate My Keitai
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Doglover wrote: |
| Often its cops who are the thugs, not the victims. Japan is not different and they treat Japanese people the same as foreigners. Foreigners here just cry race and police brutality. |
True. But that doesn't mean something shouldn't be done, regardless of where you live.
Seems to me, that b*tching about racism, the police, xenophobia are national pastimes for expats.... I admit, I do it too. Geez, you should here some of the folks at the local pub... Some of the stories that get told (and re, re-retold) are really wild.... And just like fishing tall tales, the same stories get better ever year... All I'm saying is that it would be nice if more people like Arudo stepped up to the plate and tried to do something. I don't think that necessarily means that a foreigner wants to become Japanese... |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| The Dog Ate My Keitai wrote: |
| All I'm saying is that it would be nice if more people like Arudo stepped up to the plate and tried to do something. I don't think that necessarily means that a foreigner wants to become Japanese... |
let me tell you about Arudo. He has a full time tenured job at a university. Married with children. pretty active in the JALT PALE SIG and writes and travels around the country non-stop. Took his court case all the way to the Supreme Court and was involved when the UN representative on Racism and Discrimination came here. has written one, maybe two books.
Now tell me, what exactly should he do for people that they can not do for themselves? One of the reasons he said he became japanese is so people woulnt say "Only japanese can..." becuase he is Japanese too. he would flash his passport like Mito Komon. he has done alot, but at the same time he is only one person, blood flows through his veins and its not his job to put out other peoples bushfires. I think he has probably said on his website what is required for him to get involved or at least attract his attention. He will mention things like this on his website, but it really is a david vs Goliath scenario and there are many things he can and will not do by himself, unless there is a greater cause involved. |
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The Dog Ate My Keitai
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Doglover wrote: |
Now tell me, what exactly should he do for people that they can not do for themselves? |
I'm not saying that he can or even should take up everyone's cause, but what he COULD and hopefully would do for others, is give an informed opinion, perspective and a place to start.... Having been through the legal system himself (in civil matters) he would be a great resource for some.
It would be great if more long-term residents (or even not-so-long-term residents) of Japan made a bit more noise and rattled a few more chains when it came to certain issues. I, for one, think that Japan could use a bit more litigation and lawyers... The United States, of course, is one extreme of that, where everyone sues everyone for no reason, but Japan is on the other extreme where status quo is the most highly valued asset.
malcolm: To answer your question, the reason why even after 20 years of living in Japan you can still be a GUEST is engrained in what the Japanese perceive to be someone who is Japanese. That is, only people of Japanese ethnic heritage, (whose natural eyes, skin colour and hair colour match the stereotype) and live in Japan... Whereas, an American (or Canadian) in someone who was born in the United States (or Canada, respectively) regardless of ethnic origin or appearance. We will always be guests in Japan until and unless the common definition of a "nihonjin" changes. |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| aclarke wrote: |
Speak for yourself. I`m expected to attend them about once every 8 weeks, even though 50% of the Japanese is beyond me, and 90% of the content has nothing to do with me.
Still, beats most business meetings I attended in Canada by a mile.  |
I participate in a lot of university meetings as well, where most of the time foreigners are seen and not heard and your input is not really valued. Its one of those quirks in japan where Japanese think they are busy by having long pointless meetings and a lot of the decisions have already been made and the meeting is a mere formality (Nemawashii).
Part timers etc dont usually have to attend faculty meetings either and I have heard of foreigners being in meetings where its being discussed whether or not to renew the foreign teachers contract or not. |
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