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geekyguy
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Shapingba, Chongqing
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:03 am Post subject: Same School, Another Year |
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What would it take for you to return to the same school? Those of you that have, what were the weighed pro's and con's?
Did you get a pay increase or a workload reduction?
I feel fortunate that I had a good situation and on the brink of signing another contract but am curious how much room this gives me to negotiate.
PM me for details or I'll add them here later if the conversation dictates it. |
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danielb
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I came back to my school for a second year. I negotiated a 77% (  ) pay increase, more of the airfare reimbursed (US$1500), accomodation off-campus, all utilities (still) paid for, AND my workload has been less this year! But, I am about to bail out (resigning in the next couple of day, leaving end of Oct).
Good luck! |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:29 am Post subject: |
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I find this question ... bizarre!
As for myself - the renewal of a contract is an implicit statement of confidence in me, which I take with humility and gratitude. They have a large choice of potential new teachers every time; to be taken on board a third time says I am respected although I do not necessarily just obey orders.
What's more, I like continuity as much as learners do; to be at the same university, to work in the same campus and classrooms and to possibly see a few of my former learners.
Why should my staying on come at the price of a vastly increased salary? I think the difference between a tezcvher and a backpacker lies in the fact that the former is willing to give and the latter is only willing to take. |
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Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Roger wrote:
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| Why should my staying on come at the price of a vastly increased salary? |
For many of the same reasons you deserve more than just a pat on the back for the new year- good teachers are hard to find, and you've had a year's time to demonstrate your value to the organization. This can be the result of a good record of student retention (in the commercial context); reliability and flexibility, congeniality and collegiality, in any context. |
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Don McChesney
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 656
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I came back for the students!!
The school has a 'ho hum' attitude to FT's, but the kids are great, and I believe they need someone who gives more than just the required hours in class. When I was back home, they saved up the odd Yuan and Jiao, and bought a phone card, so they could talk to me. 12 in one call saying "Hello, do you remember me, I'm the girl with black hair and dark eyes, my name is xxx whatever."
How could I refuse them?
Today the first day back in class, they are so pleased and I get stopped be many, so happy to say "hi".
The school has given me a pay rise, but that wasn't the driving force at all, I was happy to come back for the same money if necessary.
I also have friends I met at English Corner , but primarily, it was the students. |
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ryleeys
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
| I find this question ... bizarre! |
I find you bizarre. You hail yourself and others hail you as a great source of information, yet you unjustly criticize geekyguy for legitimately asking what factors contribute to a teacher's decision to resign with a school.
| Roger wrote: |
| As for myself - the renewal of a contract is an implicit statement of confidence in me, which I take with humility and gratitude. |
I take it to mean I'm not a fall down alcoholic that doesn't molest students. That's roughly the standards of 87.3% of 'schools' in China.
| Roger wrote: |
| They have a large choice of potential new teachers every time; to be taken on board a third time says I am respected although I do not necessarily just obey orders. |
Don't you routinely criticize the abilities of teachers that are, say, not Roger or fellow-in-American-hatred ChinaMovieMagic? I know you criticized me without even knowing me. Perhaps the pool of qualified and talented teachers isn't as large as you imply. I know I've heard from multiple people that the quality of applicants is usually pretty unimpressive when they're trying to fill a position.
| Roger wrote: |
| ...I like continuity as much as learners do; to be at the same university, to work in the same campus and classrooms and to possibly see a few of my former learners. |
This is actually a reasonable statement. Wouldn't it have been possible for you to make an entire post in this manner rather than the way you did?
| Roger wrote: |
| Why should my staying on come at the price of a vastly increased salary? I think the difference between a tezcvher and a backpacker lies in the fact that the former is willing to give and the latter is only willing to take. |
Nice spelling (you seem to make a lot of spelling mistakes and/or typos for someone who values his English ability so much). Is that a Czech teacher?
Also, you added the word vastly. Why shouldn't the teacher receive a modest increase in salary? This will count towards his or her increased experience, cost of living, etc. This is standard in pretty much every teaching job I know of.
I personally find the difference between a teacher and say, Roger, is the former is willing to do his job and expects fair compensation, while the latter is plagued by a serious superiority complex. |
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geekyguy
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Shapingba, Chongqing
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
| I find this question ... bizarre! |
Then resist the urge to participate in every thread regardless of whether you have something of value to add.
| Roger wrote: |
| As for myself - the renewal of a contract is an implicit statement of confidence in me, which I take with humility and gratitude. They have a large choice of potential new teachers every time; to be taken on board a third time says I am respected although I do not necessarily just obey orders. |
Yeah. As for you. Contrary to what you appear to believe not every question is about you, Roger.
Please don't judge me or impugn my integrity or motivation. If you have questions about the details feel free to ask before jumping to conclusions. |
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stil
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Hunan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:08 am Post subject: |
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There are a number of things to think about.
Salary per month is often given too high a consideration.
In no particular order -
number of classes per week?
Are you paid for 10 months, 12 months?
Communication difficulties?
Are you treated well?
Do you like the school, the city, your co-workers, your boss(es)
How good is your flat?
Cost of living?
Personal relationships?
Travel opportunities?
Type of cuisine?
Age, level, attitude of students?
Weather?
And many, many more. Each of us has different priorities. A very good flat is worth a lot to me, where as I like all kinds of food so I never worry about that.
You can tell your school that if they are interested in having you back, you need to know about a contract within a resonable time otherwise you will need to make plans to go elsewhere. Prepare in advance. I never leave a job until I have another lined up. For me this attitude is not particular to China.
Compare what they offer with what is out there for you. If something sounds good, go and visit, see if the place is suited to your lifestyle, then make decisions. You will then have a better idea of what to bargain for. If you have something in your pocket it makes negotiation with your current school that much easier. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:36 am Post subject: |
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The reward of a job well done is continued employement...the reward of exceptional behavior is a rase..and that is in place to encourage the employee to stay at his or her's current place of employent and not to leave for additonal income...a increase in salary is a necessary increment of trust ..that shows the employee that they are valued and that with their present employer ..there is bigger and better things to come...
Only a employee who is sure of the fact that they are worthless..would nt expect a rase...or at least a cost of living increase...
If you undervalued..the end of contract is a chance for the parent company to bring your pay up to market level..to avoid losing you...to another employer that relizes the true value of a good and qualified worker..thus a 77% increase should be warrented..seems like it was if you got it...a standard rase may be 5% to 10%..per month...although on a two year contract..a clause should be added to look at your performance levels over the term of the first half of the contract..and see if they warrent a boost |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ryleeys wrote: |
| [quote="Roger"... |
[quote="Roger"]
| Roger wrote: |
Don't you routinely criticize the abilities of teachers that are, say, not Roger or fellow-in-American-hatred ChinaMovieMagic? I know you criticized me without even knowing me.
| Roger wrote: |
| difference between a tezcvher and a backpacker lies in the fact that the former is willing to give and the latter is only willing to take. |
Nice spelling (you seem to make a lot of spelling mistakes and/or typos for someone who values his English ability so much). Is that a Czech teacher?
Also, you added the word vastly. Why shouldn't the teacher receive a modest increase in salary?
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I am so glad no Chinese ever accuses me of such a ridiculous thing - "anti-Americanism". That is one more reason for me to stay at the same school. And to rub shoulders with other westerners, including Americans. Go on barking up the wrong tree - pooches always yap the loudest and put their tail between their legs when one turns one's attention to them. I won't make that mistake relative to you! You are not going to last long - 3 months at that CHeiro... training centre, and not even in a legal position; a visa run to Hong Kong to be "ripped off" by that agent, pooo!
And spelling "teacher" wrong - you not only blunder into many a discussion under way without knowing what it is all about but your own mistakes are no less impressive than this typo; last time you thought you saw a mistake you were mistaken.
There is a non sequitur in your observation about "modest salary increases": I said "Vastly increased salaries" - that means I object to "VASTLY", not to "salary increases" per se. The question still is there: why should FTs get VAST SALARY INCREASES just for staying on? They should get salary increases, no doubt about that - if the economic situation permits. |
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ryleeys
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I know that you're very proud of yourself for having met with ChinaMovieMagic. Like another poster said, do you also enjoy saying, "Hey look! I've got a black friend to go along with my American friend!" Interesting also, since ChinaMovieMagic is pretty treasonous in his statements. No wonder you two get along well. My guess is that no Chinese criticize you for your political views (and social as well) due to the general Chinese view of America...
As for my personal experiences in China, yeah... I've been less than thrilled. Interesting that when I posted about my job search earlier this winter, you responded:
| Roger wrote: |
| YOu look like a guy that's way too choosey. Sorry, but I have to say you need to take the plunge and accept a job that comes with warts. |
...this pearl of wisdom can be found here: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=19393&highlight=
Is this the famous, "Roger Advice" everyone raves about? You tell a person to throw caution to the wind and then lord over them when they end up in a less than ideal situation? How kind of you... but then again, from what I've seen, I'd expect nothing less from you. As it stands, I finished the 3 month contract I signed and moved on. Honestly, I'm not overly happy teaching here. I know how delighted you are to hear me say that, but that's only a representation of your egotistical side. "I survived and he didn't!" ...... even when that's not an accurate representation of the situation at hand. As for me not remaining in China for a long time? That was never the goal. I have more ambitions than teaching English here (although if that is your goal, more power to you... it's just not my goal). I will be leaving next summer to begin teaching American high school in fall of 2006 and working towards a master's degree in education.
I mentioned the typo because you are so obsessed with raising your own stature, that you constantly hound others... as you did here in your original response. You directly implied that the question asked by geekyguy wasn't an overly valid question.
Your two paragraphs:
| Roger wrote: |
As for myself - the renewal of a contract is an implicit statement of confidence in me, which I take with humility and gratitude. They have a large choice of potential new teachers every time; to be taken on board a third time says I am respected although I do not necessarily just obey orders.
What's more, I like continuity as much as learners do; to be at the same university, to work in the same campus and classrooms and to possibly see a few of my former learners. |
... were more than sufficient to make your point. The rest was just sable-rattling nonsense.
Nobody was talking about vast salary increases. In fact, it wasn't even remotely what this thread was about. But of course, you have to make everything about you and of course I'm a sucker and will respond to that. Mostly because I find you egotistical in the extreme and partly because I find you annoying and useless in the extreme.
I appreciate you calling me implying (if not outright saying) that I am a "pooch". And so you know what, I'll restate my much earlier contention that you are a jail sentence and a "Mein Kampf" short of the line of thinking that lead to the Nazis. Am I calling you a Nazi? No, just like I didn't the first time. I'm saying that you have a belief, that you are superior to others and that if you were put through a tramatic event like prison, I could easily see you developing a violent side to your superiority complex.
You have attacked me as a teacher without having ever witnessed my teaching. My guess is because you find my country and my political beliefs repulsive. You feel that you are superior and that's a difference between you and me. I can accept differences without the need to categorize one as superior. Ironic, isn't it? That you feel so confident in the wisdom of your age and here a 23 year old is having learned a life-lesson that has so far passed you by.
Now, on to the topic at hand...
The reasons I didn't remain at my prior position were:
1) The material was unsuitable and the company was unwilling to work with me to develop more suitable material.
2) The pay for the number of hours wasn't acceptable anymore.
3) I was literally being given busy work. They would delete parts of their pre-packaged lessons, ask me to design new parts, then without even looking at my ideas put the old parts back in.
All in all, for me it comes down to respect. If I feel respected, I will stay. If I wake up in the morning and think, "I'm ready for work now" more often than not, then I'll stay. If not, I'm going on to better oppurtunities. I didn't work for 4 years in college to accept a low paying job that I won't be happy in. |
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geekyguy
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Shapingba, Chongqing
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
| Go on barking up the wrong tree - pooches always yap the loudest and put their tail between their legs when one turns one's attention to them. |
Roger. Please leave this thread. You have added nothing constructive in reply to my question and instead are using this thread as if it was your personal toilet. Your input is no longer welcome. Fling poo somewhere else. |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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As people have complained to the mods about this thread, and requested action, I'm just gonna lock this thing.
The discussion is going to go no further -- I can smell an oncoming flamewar from a mile away. Editing out the name-calling and unrelated BS would be too cumbursome (and draw the ire of those who had parts of their posts edited). Finally, I could've just deleted the thread, but that's disrespectful to those who tried to give legitimate answers to the OP's question. |
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