Job Discussion Forums

[Ally951]

Hi all --

As a newbie, I feel like a newcomer to this forum and thus, want to tread lightly... I (unintentially) spent a few hours sifting through the various forums here, including Japan, Korea and Egypt. I have an interest in working overseas, with an inclination towards Asia (it's what I'm familiar with), but wanting to see/live/work in other parts of the world as well (ie. Egypt).

My comment is this: I found myself swallowed up in the 'zeitgeist' of angry, cynical, depressed postings here, particularly for Korea and Japan. It's made me wonder about the reality of living/working in those countries - incidentally, I am Korean-Canadian. Some of the comments made in the Korean forums sounded familiar (through my own knowledge of Korean culture) and there are definitely aspects of the culture I hate (ie. general xenophobia). Japan is a whole other can of worms, so to speak. I was mesmerized by the stories out there (3 hours went by like that), and started second-guessing my decision to go abroad. I don't know, maybe I just read the postings that were negative - and missed the more positive ones...who knows.

I hope I don't get reamed for this (naive, yes) posting - but just wanted to share and see what others thought of this.

Cheers.

[Guy Courchesne]

Except for the most cynical among us, I think everyone would agree that for every complaint, crank, or awful story posted here, there are 100 great experiences written in personal journals, emails to friends, or anywhere but on this forum.

[Ally951]

That's what I sincerely hope...

Cheers,
A

[Glenski]

Ally,
People find it easier to complain online because it's anonymous. People usually don't stop to take the time to post glad tidings with no reason. Bear that in mind.

I live in Japan. What would you like to know?

More importantly, before you consider working overseas, you should familiarize yourself with the visa requirements. Do you have a bachelor's degree? How old are you? What sort of work are you interested in? (Teaching itself covers a broad area, from kindergarten to university, from business school classes to conversation schools.)

[Ally951]

Hi Glenski,

Yes, it definitely has occured to me that people who have something to get off their chest, will. Thanks for that.

I've completed a BSc and a MSW (social work) at U of Toronto. I'm interested in finding work related to social work (huge range, in and of itself) and/or teaching EFL, of course. I'm relatively young (25), no dependents, healthy - so in other words, ready to trek the globe.

I'm comfortable teaching grade school level kids (10 and above) up to adults. Anything younger, I have no experience with, nor any ECE experience. I should also mention that I do not have TEFL, TESOL, DELTA, etc. I've thought about taking a course, but am hoping that maybe I'll get by with a graduate degree. Ultimately, if it seems that having TEFL certification is absolutely necessary, I will.

My first inclination was Japan because
a) wanted to be in a country where I didn't speak the language - to have that rather unique experience
b) more lucrative (money talks, I'm afraid)
c) fascinated with the culture (I know, everyone says this)

Thing is, I got turned down by NOVA, GEOS, and ECC recently. I've begun to think that maybe I'm lacking something that others might have (most glaringly is TEFL experience). So I've recently considered Korea, followed by the Middle East and Europe...

Anyways, this is waaay longer than I had intended. By the way, appreciate the insight that you guys provide. Despite all the angry/cynical posts, I love that this forum is available.

Cheers,
A

[stillnosheep]

On the one hand many of us complain like hell about aspects of life, and of langauge teaching, in Japan, because there is so much that could be improved, and because we care (well some of us do).

On the other hand we are still here!

[ls650]

TEFL attracts some people who are "at odds" with their home country's society. These folks don't fit in at home, so they go overseas to get away - but usually don't fit in there as well.

[Glenski]

[Perpetual Traveller]

Just another point in response to the OP people who are having a great time and no problems aren't so likely to be posting because they have much less need to blow off steam and/or ask for advice

PT

[Ally951]

I did make it to the interviews, but didn't go past that. I've wracked my brain as to what I might have said or done to have killed my chances there. My demo at NOVA received positive feedback only, but yes, the interviewer may have refrained from giving criticism. My ECC demo was "decent", and I could have "ham it up". Fair enough. But I didn't think it was bad enough to not get me hired. (Incidentally, I do have teaching experience, one-on-one tutoring and classroom keyboarding class). I'll take the criticism in stride and use it for future interviews, but all in all, I don't really know for sure what it was that I was lacking (demo, something I said, personality, appearance...?). There was no explanation as to why I wasn't hired (in fact, GEOS has a policy of not telling you why you weren't hired), which would in actuality, help for future attempts. I would rather they tell me why I wasn't selected, rather than have me wondering and making the same errors in other interviews.

As for the possibility of me trying to get by with the least teaching experience possible, partly because I am opting to not get a TEFL certificate, I say it's not true. I would definitely get take a TEFL course if it meant increasingly my chance of getting hired, not just in Japan, but anywhere. But based on what I've seen and searched so far, it isn't always necessary. But in fact, I probably would feel more comfortable having that certification than not - as I've said before, will seriously consider taking it.

I've applied to AEON, as well as smaller schools (see posting in Japan forum). I am conscientious of how I will conduct the demo lesson (as in "ham it up") if I'm asked for an interview. Other than that, I can only say that this has been a learning experience...

[Gregor]

GET THE TEFL CERT!
Get a CELTA or a Trinity TESOL certificate, if you can afford it.
As for the problems you may have had at interviews or in demo classes - doing a TEFL certificate course will VERY likely help with that. You have no idea what went wrong. Well, you're an untrained teacher. Those people didn't tell you what went wrong, but I'd about bet the farm that a certified teacher - even one with no more experience than that he/she got on the certificate course - could have told you.

Why CELTA or Trinity? Because times are changing. Countries are cracking down, and they're getting away with it.
I don't know how or why. China, for example, still has plenty of schools hiring teachers with no degree or teaching certificate, but it is definitely illegal, nation-wide. Some provinces are cracking down more than others, but the crack-down will continue until it becomes like Japan, where you MUST have this and that, or you are S.O.L. That amazes me, because China doesn't pay well enough to get away with that, but they DO get away with it. I don't know why. People want to come to China? Employment is THAT much of a problem in Canada (and it will likely be a Canadian teacher getting the job, but there are plenty of Brits, Aussies and Americans doing this as well)? Who knows? But there you go.
I foresee smeone coming along and convincing China that only certain TEFL certificates are valid, and those of us with inferior certificates will be, once again, S.O.L. Best to be safe.

Back to getting certification - you may not technically need it for the work permit, or even to qualify for the interview/demo lesson. But it's TRAINING. I'm not saying that you are a bad teacher. You may be AWESOME. But if you are, you probably don't know what you're doing right (and you clearly don't know what you might be doing wrong).

One other possibility, though, and I hate to bring it up, but I also hate that it's a reality - if you're Korean-looking and trying to get a job in Asia, you MAY be turned down out of racism - employers assume that their students will balk at a "local" teacher.

Just a few points to consider.

[Ally951]

Gregor --

It's funny you mention that, about me being Korean. I've wondered if that would have had any bearing on application, but seriously thought, no, it's been 60 years since WWII and times have changed. I am aware of what's in the news now, though, regarding the geopolitics in the region (ie. history textbooks, disputed island territories, comfort women, Yasukuni shrine, etc), but I felt as a Korean-Canadian, acculturated and 'westernized', this wouldn't impact my chances very much. And I want to stress that I'm not saying that this is the primary reason why I didn't get hired. But I can't deny that I've wondered.

There's nothing I can do about it anyway, if this were in fact the reason. What I can do, however, is get TEFL certification. This I am aware of.

Thanks for sharing, again, appreciate the insight.
A[/i]

[Glenski]

Ally,
Don't consider yourself Korean-Canadian or Korean by heritage. Not out loud or in cover letters, anyway. You are CANADIAN only. If you project otherwise, you run the risk of confusing interviewers or hitting a brick wall with a (rare) stubborn narrow-minded person. They DO exist here.

Can't say more about your interviews without seeing them. Hamming it up is good. Perhaps you spoke too much, leaving students with less time to practice than the interviewers wanted? I really don't know. Do you have a strong accent? If you can practice in front of another teacher, see what he/she says about your technique.

The demo lesson itself may not have been the straw that broke their backs. What sort of questions did they ask in the interview, and what were your general responses? Some people think that they can get hired by saying they love the culture and make the mistake of emphasizing their love for manga, for example. Or, others may say that they really want to learn the language (which is not required here, and which most employers will not help you to study). Others focus on personal development or other related things, NONE of which eikaiwas really take a stand on. They simply want enthusiastic native-English speakers who look like they know a little about life, and who seem to be able to handle the culture shock of living here.

[Cdaniels]

[JimDunlop2]