Job Discussion Forums

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

"The Problem" as described by the soon to be unemployed Chung Kung Choa 鍾孔炤.

Pop Fly · Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 429

My vote's in.

Is this what spamming is?

Pop Curious

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

My brother in law runs a shoe factory in China. They make shoes under contract to many famous western brands and have been in business for many years. A very reputable company in many regards, with a large and loyal work force. Unusually, they pay their workers well, give them good conditions (by Chinese standards), and actually follow safety procedures. As a result they have become popular and somewhat well known among workers who are eager to land a position with that company.

Recently they took on a new contract from a shoe company famous for it's running shoes. As a considtion of their contract, this US based shoe company insisted that no workers under the age of 18 could work in the factory. The company that my brother in law works for protested this condition, but the US shoe firm stood firm, fearful of what the do gooders back home would say about 'child labor'. It therefore became necessary to let go around 30 staff members ranging in age from 15 to 18 years old. All of these people lost secure jobs that had offered them regular pay, reasonable accomodation, and better than average safety and working conditions. They would send money home regularly to their families in poor country areas and as such their losing the jobs had an impact on their whole families. Most importantly they had been given in house tuition in business practices to enable them to get promotions as they got older, so were also being robbed of their futures. My brother in law was upset as the young staff members had always been taken under the wings of the older staff members and were part of the 'family'. They were given payouts and let go.

Word came in yesterday that one of the youngest, a 15 year old girl, had been killed in a machine mishap in a factory down the street. Safety guards had been removed from the machinery to enable a higher quantity of product to be processed and she got sucked right into a particularly nasty piece of machinery. After losing her job at my brother in laws factory she had been given no choice but to accept a job there even though the conditions were not nearly as good. Ultimately she paid for this with her life, and her parents received a meager pay out equal to five years lost salary for the death of their only child, and the bread winner of their family.

This is exactly the sort of problem that can be created when western ideals are imposed upon Asian markets to which these ideals are very foreign. Stories such as these happen nearly every day.

What does that have to do with ESL teaching in Taiwan? Nothing I don't think, but it seems relevant to this thread! It just goes to show how misguided people can really end up disadvantaging the very people they claim that they are protecting.

timmyjames1976 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 148

I in no way see what this has to do with teaching English.

That is sad about the young girl Clark, but the problem is not with a US company refusing to contract a company that used child labor, it is with the 1000's of Chinese companies that ignore already weak safty precautions.

Chris Smith · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 86

It has nothing to do with teaching English, just as the OP has nothing to do with teaching English.

What it is is a very powerful and sad first hand account of how external interference and meddling in a system can cause dire results especially, it seems, as the decision was made based on little or no specific information.

Aristotle. If you have any first hand accounts to support your take on things, you may actually gain some respect on this forum. It's a shame that you turn every issue into an empty headline to be ignored and forgotten like yesterday's news.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

We don't live in Mainland China. We live on Taiwan.
That fact is abundantly clear to all but the most ardent ROC cronies.
The problems in the PRC or anywhere else have very little effect on the people of Taiwan with the exception of armed invasion.
Corruption on Taiwan is rampant and negatively affects nearly every facet of life for the people on Taiwan in some form or another. That system of corruption and oppression continues to be implemented by the occupational government of the Republic of China (ROC) on Taiwan.
ESL teachers on Taiwan are as much cultural teachers as they are English teachers, one of the reason's racism is so prevalent in the ESL industry. Your students don't just want to learn your language, they want to learn about your culture.
What culture are you teaching your students about your country of origin.
By accepting the corrupt and dishonest social norms being practiced on Taiwan you are in effect reinforcing Taiwan's society of corruption by default.
Why not teach your students about some of the best aspects of your national culture.
Teach your students about the "Rule of Law', "Accountability" and the great cost of corruption that is undermining Taiwan potential. That system of corruption begins with the education system. That is where the solution lies.
Teachers everywhere have a responsibility to their students to teach them what great potential they have and how to fully reach that full potential.
Teaching that corruption on Taiwan is OK, is not the best way to do that.
Taiwan's society is at a crossroads.
Taiwan can continue down the path of "status quo" which will result in the total subjugation of the people on Taiwan for generations, by yet another wave of corrupt Chinese overlords.
Or they can reach their full potential and become one of the greatest nations on the planet. Taiwan has that much unrealized potential. That potential will only come to fruition if the current system of corrupt, racist and oppressive government is abandoned by the people of Taiwan.
Do your job even if no one around you is. Teach your students they way to success and free yourselves in the process.
Good luck!
A.

Chris Smith · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 86

Bluster and propaganda.

Aristotle, you don't listen or seem to care.

" first hand experiences " is the point here, not the origin of the story. If you have anything to contribute, please do so.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

I think that you would find that most of us foreign teachers do have a positive impact upon the opinions of locals toward certain western ideals. I think that most of us are polite enough to not preach to our students nor take the high moral ground in this regard. I am sure that most of us get the word out by explaining how things are done in our countries and then letting the students work out for themselves the relevance that this has to their won countries. In my mind this makes us good teachers. It enables our students to widen their perspectives without being preached to or talked down to. Surely that is the level of respect that our students deserve, and that does not make the rest of us any less effective than you suggest we should be.

timmyjames1976 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 148

Where there is money there is coruption. Is there coruption in Taiwan? I would say it is most likely. I am from the US. Is there coruption in the US? Yes, there is coruption in the US. I am more worried about getting students to not say "I likes soda." and "Yes, they is happy." to try and push social and political ideals onto them.

And honestly, if you want to change the world, teach people how to think, not what to think.