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double agent
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 152
Location: In the wild wild west
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:41 am Post subject: ILA in Saigon??? info pluuueeezzz |
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Need a new employer in Vietkong...considering ILA.
Advice appreciated. |
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Micro67
Joined: 29 May 2003
Posts: 297
Location: HCMC, Vietnam
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:34 pm Post subject: Go For It? |
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| ILA is one of the best established schools in HCMC. They pay on time and are completely foreign owned. |
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E$L
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| This thread from sixmonths ago is pretty spot on. |
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lizarddoctor
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 141
Location: HCMC, Vietnam
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are looking for a quality environment with lots of resources and a lot of other foreign teachers to talk shop with this is a good place. I am still a little bit iffy on the fact that its to hard to secure a contract as they still require a B.A. + certification to get a full time job and only offer full time weekends and nighttime hours. If you have those kind of qualifications, try to get a 6 month contract instead and re-sign it for another 6 months if you really like the school. Do check out the other threads here on daves and on www.mekongesl.com to get other teachers point of view though. There are some really great places to work in Vietnam, but ILA at least hires over the internet if you are a little sceptical about making the jump blind from outside the country like most of us have. |
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E$L
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| try to get a 6 month contract instead and re-sign it for another 6 months |
My knowledge of VN labour law is probably nothing like your knowledge of Korean labour law but I suspect, however, that this would be illegal. |
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Ajarn Miguk
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 227
Location: TDY As Assigned
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject: Why? |
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| E$L wrote: |
| Quote: |
| try to get a 6 month contract instead and re-sign it for another 6 months |
My knowledge of VN labour law is probably nothing like your knowledge of Korean labour law but I suspect, however, that this would be illegal. |
Why? |
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Snaff
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Snaff on Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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E$L
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| It's too risky for a company to hire someone on a one-year contract because it's so difficult to terminate them. |
Yes. And companies cannot offer contracts of less than 12 months. There are very few exceptions. |
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Snaff
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Snaff on Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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E$L
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Vietnam labour law is ridiculously pro-employee (one thing that teachers often don't realise is that the law applies equally to them). If school/employee doesn't want a 12 month contract then as far as I know probationary contracts may be issued every 60 days in perpetuity. Or this loophole might have been plugged. |
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spycatcher reincarnated
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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E$L wrote
| Quote: |
| Vietnam labor law is ridiculously pro-employee (one thing that teachers often don't realize is that the law applies equally to them). |
Yes, the laws are very pro employee in many ways. Yes, they officially apply to Vietnamese and foreigners.
Unlike the Tax Laws, the Labor Laws are very badly enforced. In fact they are very bad and inconsistent full stop. They are much too restrictive and even the Department of Labor seems to regard many of these laws as guidelines rather than laws.
I can't remember all the labor laws that apply here, but I believe the following:
If one puts staff on 60 days' probation, fails their probation at the end, then reemploys them on another 60 days' probation and if this occurs repeatedly the employee can argue that they are a de facto full time employee and would probably be regarded as one if a dispute went to court.
I believe that as most teachers are paid by the hour they have very little rights. They are regarded, by law, as part time employees and can be fired at any time. As they are paid by the hour the employer can just not give them any more hours and doesn't have to officially sack them. I believe companies can sign contracts with these part time employees for any duration (am unsure about this).
Legally, I believe a full time foreign employee has to be offered a contract that is between 12 and 36 months (indefinite term labor contracts are just for Vietnamese staff). If an employer hires a foreigner (full time employee) for a year then at the end of the year if both parties agree to extend the contract for 6 months this would be illegal. One would have to sign for a year and mutually agree to terminate the contract after 6 months. If the employer wanted to make sure the employee would resign after 6 months he could get this notice in writing at the time they sign the year contract.
Not so easy!! According to the law an employee can retract his notice at anytime. One could give one's notice and on the last day of one's notice, after one's employer has employed someone to take over one's job, one could retract one's notice and say one wasn't leaving. The Department of Labor accepts this law is stupid, but at present I believe it is still law.
From memory there is something about employing seasonal workers for contracts up to a duration of 6 months. I think some schools are using this loophole to employ their teachers and this is being clamped down on at present.
Summary
The labor laws are useless, often stupid, and at present not many companies take much notice of them. In fact a recent survey said 81% of companies surveyed had no or negligible knowledge of the labor laws.
To my knowledge a few foreign employees have taken their employers to court and have won their cases in court. One should remember that it is the Communist party that makes the laws in Vietnam and not the judges so many parties that lose legal cases just refuse to pay the winning party.
I believe the labor law doesn't apply to an employer that employs less than 10 full time employees. Many schools may look as if they have a lot of employees, but many of these employees may be officially part timers so the labor laws may not apply in their school.
The above is all from memory and one shouldn't take any of the above as Gospel. |
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