Job Discussion Forums

[Nomad Dan]

Hello all. I finished my contract in January 2002. 8 months later, Aramco offered me a good job, but to my dismay I was informed by my Contractor that they could not give me the required letter of no objection because "they did not have to." It simply was not their policy to give them. I talked to the US contact person about this and she said that indeed. when you come to Saudi Arabia with them and then decide to leave, better plan to be out for a couple or three years.

I suppose there is nothing I can do about this and it is moot anyway as I am enjoying a rewarding though less lucrative position in my native Texas. I might want to go back and make a nickel or two in the KSA later. How long do I have to wait
is it two years or three?
I appreciate your answers and comments.

BTW, not all employers have this mean little practice. I have known many people to change employers....though bribe money is often paid.

Nomad Dan

[Pilot in Command]

You're absolutely right. Not all Saudi employers will treat you that way. I left my last position (a well-known petrochemical company) in Mar 2002 with only a promise from them that they'd mail my LONO to me back home in the states.

They did! About three weeks after I returned home to the US, sure enough, I received it. Because they kept their word, I've been able to line up another position in KSA. I'm just waiting for my visa; then I'll wing my way back there.

I credit that company with doing exactly what they said they'd do.

[Nomad Dan]

Thanks Pilot... Indeed, I think that the company you worked for did an honorable thing. My company on the other hand, was never dishonest about it. Newcomers such as myself at the time, never consider Letters of No Objection. At least I didn't. I also ASSUMED that if I came there and did my job and fullfilled my contract, that I would be given such a document. HAKA does not give them. It is legal, I suppose, but it is a bad business practice.

HAKA did many things right by me, but they did some bad things as well. The worst of all being not granting a letter of no objection because they are not required to.

I think there should be a list made of the companies that treat their employees with respect and dignity and those who treat the employees as western slave-labor....and all points in between.

[Stephen Jones]

The law is apparently clear on this, but that doesn't mean it's clear in practise.

An employer can prevent you from taking other employment for a period of six months if he fails to renew your contract, one year if you don't renew, and three years if you break the contract. In the case of employees who had access to company secrets the period is three years. an employer is under no obligation to give you an NOC which allows you to take work with another employer within those specified periods.

Now to make things more confusing many embassies appear to ask for an NOC for anyone who declared on his visa application that he worked previously in Saudi up to two years before. Nobody knows where that figure of two years came from, and in general most people who apply for second jobs in Saudi appear to suffer from selective amnesia when it comes to filling in the visa form.

The regulation serves little purpose apart from making life gratuitiously unpleasant for expatratiate workers, greatly increasing recruitment costs for Saudi companies and government institutions, wrecking the Saudi government's reputation abroad and providing an opportunity for unscrupulous employers to exercise petty power and extortion.

[Mark100]

My advice is to get a new passport and no one will be the wiser.
Many people i know have done it and not had a problem.

[Chrisbee]

I have found that private institutions will not give such a letter out of fear you may divulge company secrets and ideas to the next private company. This proves that teaching English here is nothing more than a business and this society does not give priority to quality education of their youth and are more concerned with its competition. Its all about money!

[scot47]

Private language schools eveywhere are business ventures. The moral is if you have any ethics then it is better to teach in the government sector.

Having said that, there are governement jobs in Saudi where it is the policy not to give a letter of No Objection.

Nobody seems sure if the waiting peiod for those without a LONO is 1, 2 or 3 years. LONO is also known as NOC (No Objection Certificate.)

[Chrisbee]

Does ANYONE know a way around the "LONO" without going back to the States?

I would hate to have to go through the process of medical reports and whatever all over again. Not to mention, I am settled and comfortable here.

[johnslat]

Dear Chrisbee,
The only other way I've witnessed of overcoming not getting a LONO is the obvious one:

WASTA

If your prospective employer has it, and wants you enough, your not having a LONO is irrelevant and immaterial.
Regards,
John

[Jim Bigelow]

I worked for a private language school for 3 years. I did a job I was proud of and for which I was commended by my superiors.
About 6 months ago the company made changes to my package that meant I was no longer able to sustain the life style I'd become accustomed to and so discussed the possibility of my package reverting to it's original state.
To this I was promptly told that they would not change anything and their suggestion was that I change my lifestyle!
As my contract was up for renewal around the same time I decided it was not an option to renew for a fourth year and gave them 2 months notice.
In my naivety I had hoped for a transfer to a non-competitor
That was flatly refused. I've been through months of reasoning with the company but it seems there is no way to change their mind!
The choice was stay or leave Saudi with no letter of no objection.

In saying all of that, my story is one side of the coin and you will find sponsors who despite not wanting you to leave will accept that it's time for you to move on and allow that. It really depends on the each individual person.

There is no golden rule and no way to know what your sponsor will do. The government sector at times permits transfer however if you have 'teacher' or spec. in Arabic 'mudaris' on your iqama then you will face some problems as 'mudaris' is now reserved for Saudis. However as John mentioned, where there's wasta, there's a way!
Some people offer to give up the ESB (end of service benefits) in return for a transfer or the letter.
If your employer will agree to give you a letter of no objection then you can collect your visa for your new employee from Bahrain or any country you want but you will still have to go through the medical procedure again,

As for the time you must stay out of the country then officially it is 2 years. Unofficially it's 6 months and most employers won't kick up a fuss if they find you back after 6 months.

One important point: If you held any type of sensitive position and you where not given a transfer or the letter and then you go out and come back before the 2 year period...watch out!
There are many cases of former employers finding out that there old employees where back in KSA and they had them deported. Some of theses people that where deported had come back to work for a high up Prince but despite that the Wasta was no use and they ended up flying home!

I've gone through alot on this topic so if I can be of any help then let me know!

[manonatrain]

am breaking my oman contract. Sure i know this is a Saudi
board, but this thread lead by others in oman goes no where.

Does anyone know about this part of the Gulf?

Anyone out there can send me a private message if you have info on this
thank you..

ya NO WASTA

[Jim Bigelow]

What seems a more apt question is if you owe money then should you be able to get away?

Sorry but I have no idea about Oman but I've heard that what runs through KSA is the same as the rest of the middle east.

As for coming on a new passport then that seems the easiest option but as mentioned if you're valued by your old employer or they have some claim against you then keep looking over your shoulder....

[drlubanski]

what about a LNOC that says the employer has no objection to the employee coming back to work for [the employer again]" (as opposed to coming back to work anywhere in saudi) ? would this stop you from working for a different organisation?

[Jim Bigelow]

I don't think this would help at all!

When you want to come back into Saudi you will need to present to the Saudi Embassy, your contract,copy of the visa secured by your employee and letter from your employee to the embassy.
Your Letter of no objection must correspond with new contract and letters etc so for this reason I don't think your idea will work....back to the drawing board!

[Jim Bigelow]

A question that came to mind:

If you are required to stay out for 6,12 or 36 months (as per Stephen's post above) then when does that time start counting down from?

A friend at the Saudi Embassy in London told me it was from the last day you worked for your employer and NOT from the day you left Saudi Arabia.

Many times I've found that this forum sheds more light on these issues so what do you know?