Job Discussion Forums

[drakis]

I need some help, some information, a job. Following are my circumstances, and I would really appreciate some factual information about where I can and cannot work supported by immigration laws, and would also love to hear from people in similar circumstances. Here are some of my circumstances:

1. EC passport issued by the Netherlands.

2. Permanent Resident of Canada (spent last 24 years out of my 38 in US or Canada.)

3. I speak English without an accent. It has been my primary language for the past 24 years.

4. 13 years of education conducted in the English language which culminated in a PhD in Psychology.

5. Next to no actual teaching experience.

6. No certificates for teaching or teaching ESL.

7. Getting a Canadian passport is not a reasonable option for me, as I would have to give up my EC passport, and besides it would take something like 18 months as Imm. Canada is a little behind on their work load at present.

So far I have only been able to rule out Taiwan, as their rules specifically state that a person can only teach in the language spoken in the country that issued their passport.

Up to now I have concentrated my job search on Japan, but have now expanded to anywhere in the world. I'm not very picky at the moment as to where I go. My only requirements would be that my wife who's in Kyrgyztan at present can join me quickly. (I just got married in April and have had all of two weeks with her then due to present circumstances.) Money is always an issue, but I would be happy if I would be able to save something at the end no matter where I went. Any situation that would lead to more education specifically in this industry would also be welcome.

I am a little frustrated at the moment by all kinds of people telling me where I can't work based on their limited knowledge of the regulations (in many cases the people I communicate with would prefer everything to be hasslefree and would rather not deal with me.) According to the Korean Ambassador, for example, I should be legally able to work in SK, but that I could run into problems getting the proper papers from SK officials, not because of law, but rather a situation of them using their discretion or whatever the case may be.

Any pointers, any info, any links to the European job market also, would be greatly appreciated.

Japan, Spain, Greece, Singapore, SKorea all sound good to me. Many other countries I'd love to go, too, as well, but sometimes money is a concern. All I want is a job teaching and spend the rest of my time getting back to writing books.

[nolefan]

China is the easiest option for you. Japan is possible albeit not practical but i'll let the Japan folks deal with that one. As far as I know, in both countries, you will be issued a work visa no matter where your passport is from.

Forget about South Korea.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

You would likely have a big problem in Japan, not because of legal things like getting a visa, but because of things like employers saying you aren't a real English speaker (I've been told that I'm not a 'real Canadian' because I spent the first two years of my life in the UK). If you had a Canadian passport, it wouldn't be a problem. Even if you were French Canadian and spoke with a really thick French accent and occasionally forgot words in English, it wouldn't be a problem. It's about the colour of the flag on your passport. A lot of Japanese people can't hear English accents and so that's all they have to go on (some will assume that someone from Australia is from the US even after talking to them for a few hours, especially if they have blond hair).

I don't want to come off as saying it's entirely hopeless. There are lots of Japanese people who wouldn't have any problem with it (I would say the vast majority of Japanese people, especially young Japanese people- and by young I mean under 45ish), but unfortunately most of them aren't in the position to give you a job.

Job ads in this country often specify citizenship of applicants. The strange thing (because of distance between the varieties of English) is that it's often "the US or UK" leaving out Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand etc- the (as my Japanese Teacher of English says) "minor countries".

[drakis]

[quote="GambateBingBangBOOM"]
I don't want to come off as saying it's entirely hopeless. There are lots of Japanese people who wouldn't have any problem with it (I would say the vast majority of Japanese people, especially young Japanese people- and by young I mean under 45ish), but unfortunately most of them aren't in the position to give you a job.

I have pretty much given up on Japan for the short-term. I do understand that for me to get a job there I will have to jump some hoops and do more legword than perhaps others. I don't have time for hoops at the moment, but will continue thinking about Japan for a later future. You have pretty much given the gist about Japan as it is. This was pretty much the idea that I had already. (Maybe the fact that I still have some blonde hair will help - hopefully by the time Japan comes around it won't be all gray yet.)

[JimDunlop2]

As far as Japan goes:

I'd never condone lying, but after living for so many years in Canada, being in your shoes, I'd have absolutely no qualms about saying, "I'm Canadian." As an addendum, I'd point out that for certain reasons, I don't travel under a Canadian passport, but under a EC (Dutch) passport.

Then, that limits what kind of statements people can make about not being a "native speaker."

If anyone wanted to really push the issue, I'd offer to get them in touch with native speakers of English who were born and raised in Japan. I personally know a number of them. They are citizens of various countries... I've met even more who've been educated in International schools and whose accents resemble those of anyone from an English-speaking country. Citizenship, as far as I know, is only relevant in applying for the JET program, which states, that if you are applying for the program from a non-English country (such as S. Korea) you must first show them an accredited level-1 Japanese proficiency grade.

[dmb]

Turkey could be an option. A few years ago I worked with a German girl who had a German passport and was legally Teaching in a university prep program. She has also had a CELTA, which is a requirement for getting a work visa.

[31]

You don't need a CELTA to get a work permit nor do you need one to work in a TEFL mill or private uni.

[stillnosheep]

13 years of education in English meets the Japanese govt minimum requirements for the issuing of a work visa to teach English in Japan.

Some of the best EFL teachers are bilingual and/or have experience of learning English as a second language.

As others have noted, I would stress the Canadian residency and explain that you carry a Dutch passport as it enables you to work in Europe.

[JDYoung]

In my experience Canada does not require that you give up your previous citizenship and passport when you become a Canadian citizen. My mother has both UK and Canadian citizenship and plenty of my neighbours in Canada had both Canadian and USA. I even have one friend with three citizenships. I've been told that Germany requires you to relinquish your German citizenship if you become a citizen of another country. Is the Netherlands as restrictive as Germany?

[drakis]

Canada doesn't require it. The Netherlands has a so-called 'convention' against dual or multiple citizenships. There are a very few exceptions to the rule that do allow dual citizenship with a Dutch passport, and I don't qualify for any of those exceptions. As a matter of fact, my consulate wouldn't even renew my passport until I got proof for them from Imm Canada to show them that I hadn't applied for Canadian citizenship ( This was mainly due to the reason that my passport had been expired more than a few years) and I had to wait for this document for 5 months, because Canada Imm is way behind on their workload. Strangely enough, as I understand it, my wife from Kyrgyztan will be able to qualify for a Dutch passport without giving up hers as long as she lives with me for 3 years in any country but Kyrgyztan and in the same scenario I might qualify for a Kyrgyz passport. Every country is different in that respect.

[Deconstructor]

[Guy Courchesne]

I'm not sure about Asia, but accent seems important to Mexicans where I live and teach. They can certainly detect it...

There's a Mexican English teacher I work with who, of course, has a Spanish accent when he speaks, but the English he speaks is very clearly British. I've often thought that he sits in front of the mirror every day to practice it, but it of course comes from his studies and time spent in the UK.

[Deconstructor]

Hey Guy, glad to see you back in this neck of the woods.

Well, a large percentage of students where I teach are Mexicans and many of my colleagues are French Canadians, Armenians and from Middle East. They tell me that students could never hear their accents.

In any case, I don't want to hijack this thread. As a non native teacher, teaching English is possible in South America and Europe too, so one should never give up.

[Guy Courchesne]

It is more down to perception than anything else. I've had some people tell me I have an American accent (whatever they meant by that I don't know), a Canadian accent, a GERMAN accent (that was odd) and a British accent. When I speak Spanish, my perception is that I have an American/Canadian accent, but other say French, others say none (usually being polite).

Many Mexican students I've asked tell me that accent is important to them, more along the lines of being understood or not. To me it seems to be a Mexican trait to be uncomfortable speaking in English for fear of embarrassment. Students indicate this when giving their reasons for choosing a language school or teacher that advertises 'native-speaking'.

[Ben Round de Bloc]