Job Discussion Forums

teacha · Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Posts: 186

My dealings with them have been via email and they seem to be OK at replying on topic and promply most of the time.....Clarke raves about their good reputation. My friend owns a chain of Hostels in Taipei and just sent me this email, in fact I have communicated with Andrew many times and liked him but he was less responsive than Cliff:

"Yesterday have three girl from canada who come to Taiwan looking for job and today afternoon they told me they all got the teacher the job.

I'm so surprised to ask how? and they told me is Agency introduce the job for them.but not pay
very well,full time per/month is TWD$40000.

If you want to try call the tel:xxxxx or [email protected]
the agency co. is John Dewey International Education Consultants Ltd.
you no need pay any money to agency, is school pay.

I feel the agency take every month money from those teacher.what do you think?

Have a nice day "

Yeah I think they are shady now too !!!!

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

teacha · Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Posts: 186

I agree Clark, but it is shady. And it is full time. And they are not ABC's. And Dewey may be giving bad rate or skimming, either way, as we know there are suckers off the plane and then there are sharp people. Dewey may be like all recruiters and have a sliding scale de scam.

Dr_Zoidberg · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:38 am Post subject:

I have used this company twice in my search for employment, and have no complaints about them; the schools where I was employed, however, were rather dodgy.

The teacher is not paid by John Dewey, so it is not possible for them to skim off the top. The teachers are paid by the schools that employ them.

johndewey · Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 2 Location: Taiwan

The thing about those 3 Canadian Born Chinese girls who went for the interview in that Taipei school has been solved out right after those 3 CBC girls made their mind not taking the positions. That school didn't make it difficult to them even though those 3 CBC girls signed the employment contract with that school.

John Dewey International Education Consultants Ltd never has any financial relationship with any teaching positions seekers.

We also believe this is the way we can make things as honest as we can.

Sincerely

Andrew

argonfly707 · Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 46 Location: Taiwan

I have also just dealt with Andrew from Dewey and have found a great job. And the school pays not the teacher.
Argon

Finn76 · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Mingxiong Chiayi

Well, my experience with the company has been... pretty much the cliche of why not to go with a recruiter.

I applied for a position through this site with JD whilst I was still in my home country (bad move on my part) and flew out here trusting oh so naively that they would be the middle man between myself and the school.

To cut a long sorry tale short (which you can read about if you are very bored) David, my rep at JD has come up with some jems such as "you shut up!" to my co-worker and flown off the handle to me in emails with the general gist being "too bad, your problem - deal with it" then written back with an almost contrite "ohh, maybe I shouldn't have said that so harshly, I better suck up now..." email. He is only 24 and can talk the talk BIG TIME. "I guarantee, you be 110% happy in Taiwan. No problem." But once in the job from hell...and not so happy.. it was a whole other story....

So, just a warning - I don't know about the financial aspect of the company, but from personal experience (and that of another school who dealt with them) I feel that they are more interested in placing as many positions as possible with little regard or honesty for the suitability of either the candidate or the school.

Pop Fly · Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 429

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

I have never sought work through John Dewey so can't really speak from a teachers point of view, but I have been in contact with them off and on about other matters. I have always found Andrew to be pretty good, and I think that this his reply in this thread seems to be pretty reasonable.

The only complaint about Dewey that I am aware of (other than the one from Finn76 above) was relatively minor in nature but was also about David.

Finn76, as you may have seen I have recommended Dewey on more than one occasion on this forum. I would be interested in hearing more details about your experience if you would like to write this here or PM me.

Finn76 · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Mingxiong Chiayi

For some reason I can't PM... it is saying it not available on this message board...

I am just referring to my troubles outlined in the thread "When is Enough Enough?" Currently on page 2.

I have finally resolved the issues in this thread, but with NO SUPPORT from anyone except you Clarke, and the other people in this forum. The school and JD just wanted me to shut the $@#! up, do my job, and get over the fact that this was not really what I had in mind when I stupidly signed a contract when in Australia. They failed to mention the school was a) A Vocational high school and b) not actually IN Chiayi - but 25 mins outside. They knew they had me trapped, they had / have the power - and I am the sucker. Deal with it. "We don't want to know your personal problems".

Luckily for me, I am a good enough teacher who has built enough respect with the students now (thankfully) that the reward of seeing them WANT to learn is enough to counteract dealing with the rest of the bureucratic cr@! from the staff at the school and the backwards mentality of an industrial backwater where I live and work.

However, referring to JD, from the start, my questions like 1. Where will I live? 2. How will i get there? 3. Will someone meet me off the plane? Were answered with "You no worry!" ... . Granted, it is my own fault for not seeing the warning signs. I am just saying, I have seen any reason to recommend anyone I care about using the company as 'support' is an unknown word to them.

teacha · Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Posts: 186

Wow.......Was this another example of teacha starting a post that was .........DARE I SAY.........A RAY OF LIGHT ........the only time anyone shed TRUE LIGHT ON JOHN DEWEY........how many free endorsements they have gotten from one side over thears.......sad, very sad. That is my ob people, to SHOW THE REAL SIDE OF TEACHING IN TAIWAN.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Now I remember Finn. You were stuckin that horrible school with the horrible kids. It's good to hear that you have overcome those problems, and disappointing to hear that you didn't get any support in this regard.

I think that I recommended that you raise the matter with Andrew from Dewey as I have found him to be quite good. Did you get around to that and if so did he respond appropriately?

I think that Finn definitely has some legitimate concerns and I would certainly recommend against dealing with Dewey if you had to deal with David. It seems somewhat clear that he may not be as good at his job as he should be and in cases such as Finn's, incompetence can be a real problem.

That said I would still personally recommend Dewey, and Andrew from Dewey in particular. They won't rip you off and overall I believe that they deliver on what they promise. As always teachers should do their best to research positions as well as they can, and I understand that this is not always easy but it is really important.

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

John Dewey may be the best recruiting organization in the world. It may not be, as well. Regardless, the veteran advice re: agents, recruiters etc is to avoid them all. This is not a minority opinion. Check out other reputable sites such as tealit and forumosa on this issue. The overwhelming consensus of opinion among teachers living in Taiwan is clear: 1) recruiters are not necessary for finding work in this country, thus making even the slightest risk that your recruiter/ placement turns bad a completely avoidable risk 2) it is better that you are here before you look for jobs 3) even if 2) makes you too nervous, you have all the resources you need with your computer in your home country to search out reputable schools, contact them directly, get your own job and eliminate the middleman.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

There is certainly some truth in what TS says above. Many old timers do recommend against dealing with recruiters, but then it is very easy for them to say that as they already either have jobs, or are familiar enough with Taiwan and it's people to find work on their own. In some cases people recommend against all recruiters as they were burned by one in the past. Whilst I can understand their caution it seems somewhat unfair to tar all recruiters with the same brush.

It is true that you do not NEED a recruiter to get work in Taiwan, but for some people their services can be helpful. To get work here yourself you can certainly just arrive and contact schools yourself. This is certainly an option and many teachers do just this. Then again, recruiters can give you a soft landing by arranging things for you before you arrive and some people value that.

We cannot deny the fact that some teachers who have never been to Taiwan before, or possibly never been overseas before, are unlikely to just hop on a plane and come here. These teachers can contact schools from overseas and line things up but they are still pretty much on their own and without the soft landing that recruiters generally offer.

Much of the stigma attached to recruiters is based upon a general fear of recruiters and a misconception that if someone is in the business of recruiting then they must somehow be dishonest. This doesn't make sense to me how people can make a value judgement of a whole industry based upon some problems in that industry. Often people who have never even dealt with a recruiter will come out and say 'Don't deal with recruiters. They are all dishonest.' That strikes me as strange. Sure there are some terrible recruiters out there. I can think of a few that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. That said there are a few that are honest and actually just try to make a living providing a service that people can either choose to use or ignore. I think that it is very unfair when people generalize about any group of people based upon bad experiences with a few, and I believe that recruiters are no exception here.

Also it is worth bearing in mind that dishonesty and problems are not the sole domain of recruiters. Many people make it sound as if once you have avoided the minefield of the dishonest recruiters that you can then let down your guard as dealing with the schools directly is trouble free. It is not. There are just as many bad schools out there as bad recruiters, in fact possibly even more. Why don't these people suggest that we all avoid schools based upon the bad behavior of some of them? Of course it would be silly to suggest this, so isn't it equally silly to suggest that we all avoid recruiters for this reason?

No matter what we say about recruiters and no matter how many people say how terrible they all are, some teachers will continue to use them as these teachers legitimately feel that it is a better option for them than just arriving. Who are we to begrudge these people this right, just because we feel that we don't need to use a recruiter?

Surely what we all need to do is work together to identify which recruiters set out to deceive and/or consistently provide bad services. This way rather than saying 'Don't deal with recruiters' and have newbies ignore this advice as they feel that they don't really have a choice; and instead be able to say 'Don't go recruiter A, B, or C as they have bad reputations, but instead give recruiters X, Y, and Z a try as they seem to be pretty good.' Surely this is the most helpful thing to do.

I am fully aware that some people would take a lot of pleasure should one of the recruiters that I have recommended from time to time err and do something wrong by a teacher. No doubt these people would then jump up and down saying 'Told you so'! Bit childish if you ask me. I am not stating that these recruiters are perfect nor am I getting a kickback from them. I am just trying to wade through the cow dung to try to find the best possible options for teachers who choose to use recruiters. I like to think that this advice is part of a solution rather than part of the problem.

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

There is no soft landing available to those who use recruiters over contacting schools themselves. Most larger school companies will arrange for airport pickup and lodging for new teachers. What else is there?

I have first hand experience dealing with recruiters to find work here. I suspect Clark does not. I do not, however, base my recommendations on my experiences alone. Too may people (and I have met a lot in my time here) I have encountered have been burned by, or otherwise disatisfied with, recruiters. Some would defend recruiters and their practices, but they often turn out to be people who are either recruiters themselves or operate websites that receive advertising monies from them. I have no hidden agendas behind what I write. My conscience alone dictates what I say.

Fact is, you can and should get work for yourself, whether here or contemplating coming here. All the tools you need to do so are at your fingertips. If you need help, check out Tealit.com, forumosa.com and this website to start. If you still need help, pm me. I'll direct you in the right direction and won't charge you anything (or make any money at all). It is very important that you avoid the COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE risk of putting your trust in recruiters when contemplating your move to Taiwan.