Job Discussion Forums

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

HOw do you feel about working for the military in the Middle East? I've been looking at some of their websites and they seem to have good compensation and benefits, but isn't working for another country's military a big no-no?

johnslat · Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:43 am Post subject: In general, shun the military

Dear naturegirl321,
Working for the military here is just about the worst job you can get - there are reasons for those " good compensation and benefits ". And, since your work life/environment here is so important ( there isn't much life outside of it ), having a bad one is not a good idea. Personally, I'd never do it ( work for the military here ). Uh, besides - if your user name actually does give an indication of your gender, you certainly wouldn't be able to work for the military in Saudi Arabia ( although maybe such things ARE allowed in the " more liberal " UAE ).
Regards,
John

tefllifer · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 81

Where is 'here'?
Why is it the 'worst job you can get' 'here' (wherever here is)?
Mili jobs differ greatly from country to country, contract to contact, branch to branch.
John, your contentions beg clarification!

johnslat

Dear teflifer,
" Here " ( as the location listed on my avatar helps clarify ) is Saudi Arabia, where I have lived/taught for 19 years now. In all that time I have never met one teacher who had worked for the military ( any/all branches ) here who had one good thing to say about the experience. And I have known literally dozens of such teachers. Why is it " the worst job "? Well, here are some reasons I've heard:

1. the students are very generally not, shall we say, exceptionally bright and are moreover amazingly lazy.
2. The administrations ( military ) tend to be exceedingly rigid in their direction, micromanaging the teachers' work.
3. " Wasta " is even more rampant than it is in non-military settings. Failed students who have the connections never fail.
4. Dismissal of teachers for unstated ( and, according to the many teachers who've mentioned this, unknown ) reasons is faily common.

Admittedly, I have no personal experience of working for the military here, but, as I said, when, over 19 years, literally every account I have heard from teachers who have worked for the military in Saudi Arabia has been negative, well, one does tend to see a pattern there.
So, have you ever worked for the military in Saudi Arabia, and if so, was it a good experience for you? If so, I hope it was - both for you and for me. For me because it would be nice to have heard of at least one happy tale in that context before I leave here.
Regards,
John

Paul in Saudi · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 404 Location: Doha, Qatar

Gosh, John, I have been teaching the Saudi military (under two different contracts) for seven years and I like it just fine.

They pay on time, have a nice vacation policy and management (at least here in Jeddah, the work environment in Dammam was poor).

The students are a cross-section of Saudis and few of them are linguists. Getting through to them takes some real skill and I enjoy the challenge.

What is your background to make such a broad brush condemnation of the Saudi military as an employer?

Cleopatra · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:05 am Post subject:

My situation is a bit different in that I am an EFL teacher but i work in a hospital - the Military Hospital. have to say I don't have too many complaints about pay and conditions here - the place is quite efficiently run and the money and accomodation are fine.

My students ar not military types but hospital trainess - they are great! Of course, those dealing directly with the military might be in a different boat!

Mark100 · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 441

I agree with John.
Very rarely have i heard a good word said about the teaching of military cadets.
I know lot of guys who work for BAE and they do not have much good to say about the teaching side of things.
Their benefits are great but the job itself is more akin to child minding and crowd control.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I have never heard anything good about any military contracts 9in the ME, whetehr it be British Aerospace, Raytheon, Lockhed, Vinnel or the National Guard. Typically Saudi supervicors will take an interest in what you do and say in class. The students tend to be low-achievers with a low cultural awareness.

The compensation is that you get more money. Is it worth it ? Dop you value your sanity ?

One of my favourite anecodtes is about the Saudisupervisors who decided to arrange the class lists alphabetically - by first name,so some guy got a class with 22 students bearing the name "Mohammed". Even if it is not true it tells us something about the way the military do things.

Paul in Saudi · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 404 Location: Doha, Qatar

There are good and bad places to work in the military, just like anywhere else.

(I am amazed by those of you who teach for private firms. The pressure to put butts in seats, the crazed school owners, but I digress.)

With this contract I have good housing and pay, an excellent travel package and acceptable vacation.

More relevant to the current discussion, my classes are small, my hours are short and the Saudi military leafves me alone. Whenever I have a conflict with my students, the military never fails to back me up.

(Frankly, after TINS in Dammam, it took some getting used to.)

The students are nice enough and I have a knack for dealing with them. I actually like the DLI program, perhaps because I am so used to it now.

Anyway, a general condemnation of Saudi military jobs seems to be too broadbrush.