Job Discussion Forums

[fluffyhamster]

OK, I admit it, I am a total cheapskate and have been making do with a very very basic no-frills prepaid phone for over two years now. I keep intending to get a "better" phone, but hey, if it ain't broke (and besides, fancier phones have monthly rental fees that I'd like to avoid).

This cosy little arrangement might have to end soon, though, because Vodafone are being right d*cks about re-registering my address details before the suspension of service at the end of October (this is aimed at stopping crooks from continuing to use and/or flog phones for anonymous users - apparently when they first came out, quite a few Preca were sold without any need for registration).

I went into my "local" Vodafone shop (a train journey away) a few days ago with my Foreigner ID card (issued in mid-2003, valid until mid-2007, with the address I've been at since mid-2004 entered in on the back by my current local City Hall). The staff in the shop got me to fill out a form and seemed to process my new details without question.

Today, however, I got a skymail from someone in the shop (being "helpful" and/or anal, no doubt) saying that as the "Period of Stay" on my ID card was only until mid-2004, I'd need to present a new ID card before Vodafone would be satisfied. (Like, duh, it's now 2005 and I never bothered to renew my visa after 2004?! Yup, I've been on the run from not just Vodafone but also...the police! etc for yonks now...<<sigh>>...ID cards aren't necessary to renew with the same frequency as visas!!!).

It took me a while to compose myself, and then a reply in Japanese text, but I managed to explain very clearly (or so I thought) that the ID card only notes the expiry date of the initial Period of Stay (the City Hall concerned has no idea or particular interest in if you will be staying beyond that, nor is it in their remit or power to extend that Period of Stay...because, as all we foreigners who have gone to an Immigration Bureau know, that is a visa official's job); that my ID card is actually valid and perfectly kosher until 2007; and that any subsequent Periods of Stay are entered in my passport (which Vodafone did not mention or request in their automated English reminders about Preca renewal).

The response? Like talking to a brick wall...they just reiterated what they'd said in their first skymail to me.

So, I had to jump on a train (again) and go jump up and down on their heads and give them a basic education in the "complexities" of the ID card versus visa/Period of Stay shebang. I was actually quite flabbergasted that anyone could come to the ridiculously illogical conclusions that I'd somehow overstayed my "Period of Stay", was living at some totally shady and undisclosed address and was carrying a somehow "invalid" ID card to boot.

You guys had or heard of similar lapses in basic human reasoning and intelligence? Such pigheaded ignorance of the basic workings of the bureaucratic processes of developed nations?

I made it crystal clear that I would not, under any circumstances, be playing their silly game and going to the City Hall to beg for a nice shiny new ID card just for those nice people at Vodafone (**** that for a game of soldiers). The compromize? Make a THIRD trip to the office with passport displaying current limit of Period of Stay and something recent with my name and address on it (e.g. NTT bill - should've thought to bring that along in the first place. The passport, however...I didn't dream I'd be needing that).

I wonder if this is a ploy designed to get enraged but desperate customers to just go out and buy a new Preca (in e.g. a 7-11)...I also wonder if it is actual Vodafone policy to make so many checks, or if it's just the ****ers in that particular shop being "efficient" and robot-like (actually that isn't quite fair, they did say they themselves would do me the favour of not pushing it any further, but that somebody in Vodafone Central Command might raise an eyebrow...).

OK, rant over. Go recommend Vodafone to your friends! Vodafone obviously has a really really smart and informed guy at the helm!

[Stosskraft]

I have a pre-paided Vodafona, and it keeps telling me to register when I "fill up" my account.

What, exactly does this mean? Do I have to go to a Vodafone shop and do this ? Whats the reason, I just got my phone 2 months ago and I am leaving Japan this December. I think I may have the same problems as you, as My visa has just been switched to a Humanitarian Visa and I have not gone to city hall to change my Foreigners card yet. Well, thanks for the heads up anyway at least I know I should go to city hall and fix the card first.

Now, what if I just bring my passport with the visa in it? Would this satisfy Vodafone ?

[seanmcginty]

[fluffyhamster]

Hi seanmcginty, thanks for the reply LOL.

I appreciate that changes in one's circumstances are meant to be registered at City Hall within a reasonable period of time, and that failure to do so may result in problems the next time you go to especially the visa authorities for renewal. My point was merely that regardless of the changes in the details entered on the ID card, it is actually a separate (though intitally linked) document to the visa (and all subsequent renewals of the visa/extensions of the Period of Stay), and the fact that the initial Period of Stay printed on the ID card is extended not on a new ID card each year, but within one's passport seems to have escaped Vodafone's attention entirely.

My objection, therefore, was not necessarily to needing to bring in extra proof of address per se, but to receiving instructions from an employee to jump through beaurocratic hoops when there is absolutely no need to do so (you must admit that being told that having a "new" ID card is an absolute necessity was a bit much...I wonder what the City Hall would actually say if I obeyed Vodafone's dictats and asked for a new card for reasons other than I had "lost" my old one...do you think the City Hall would humour me, or rather, Vodafone?).

So, proof of address is one thing (achievable with an ID card, and to be absolutely sure, let's say a bill from NTT), but proof of visa status would seem to me at least to be none of Vodafone's business; if they had said right at the beginning that they needed to see my passport to further establish my identity, I could understand that, but they obviously did not know what they were talking about when they asked me to get a new ID card for them (or now, to present the visa pages from my passport to them). Just the fact that I am still here and present in Japan, asking to get an extension for my Preca phone, should have been their only concern!

As for exactly how much documentation is required to get services or memberships etc in the UK (and, I imagine, Canada), where there are no standard ID cards, is hard to judge and something of a fine art, so it is obviously better to err on the side of caution and take in a driver's license, kitchen sink, bill from plumber etc etc, but in Japan the main item is surely the ID card itself.

Let me put it this way: if you walked into a store here with just a bill and perhaps even a passport too but not ID card, I don't think they'd process anything until the ID card (with notarized current address etc) was forthcoming. I've found that usually this by itself is sufficient or what they tend to zero in on and copy, so Vodafone's pickiness is surprising in this regard.

I was ranting a bit so a few of my comments about developed countries etc were a bit off of the mark. What I should perhaps have said was that I would like to know if Vodafone generally has a clear policy regarding foreigners with Precas (there must be quite a few trying to renew), because the store that I visited didn't seem to have a clue. I really don't think it should be my job to explain the workings of the visa-issuing appartus to their staff, and needing to do so to "helpful but oh-so-an*l-and ultimately it's more than my job's worth, I have no intiative or balls and am torn between bothering and not bothering head office over this" staff can soon turn you into a person who sees only ignorance, incompetence and obstructiveness on their part (which is ultimately probably a fair summation of the company's attitude).

So, just as I objected a little to being patronized by Vodafone, so I must, with respect, object to being somewhat patronized by you, seanmcginty. I know that my long posts invite some kind of response, but at the end of the day, the only person with any reason to be getting worked up just a little here is me. If you can't sympathize, at least don't try to rationalize and defend the tw*ts so much, eh? A bit of e.g. humourous sass would've made a better (i.e. nicer) complement to my vomit than more in-your-face-upchuckings.

[fluffyhamster]

Hiya Stosskraft, a "heads up" is a nice way of describing what I wrote, so thanks!

I guess that even though your phone is very recent, Vodafone are reprocessing EVERYONE, so if you want to keep your Preca service beyond the end of October, I suggest you get to a store by the 31st! (I wouldn't worry about getting all the details onto your ID card, the main thing is proof of address, which the ID card and a bill or two will supply. The fuss over the apparent "expiration" of my Period of Stay was, I'm hoping for your sake, probably just to do with the store I visited).

[fluffyhamster]

[seanmcginty]

[fluffyhamster]

Hi again seanmcginty, I've actually moved three times and changed employers in the process each time, so I appreciate a new card isn't required each time your circumstances change or you get a visa extended; the back of my card is therefore almost full on the left side! So, everything on it is up to date, most certainly my address (that is probably the most important imformation entered on it, in the eyes of the authorities). Sometimes the changes to the employer information can lag behind a bit if you change jobs but not address, but again, that wouldn't really be Vodafone's concern.

The Preca system is short for "Prepaid card". The phonesets themselves are available from convenience stores as well as Vodafone shops (it's probably best to get one at a V outlet, they have more choice of colour etc for one thing), provided that you present some form of ID (including your current address), which for foreigners is pretty much the ID card we love so much and have to carry everywhere (I'm actually all for ID cards, because they should actually be more of a help than a hinderance to the law-abiding citizen when e.g. visiting Vodafone).

[seanmcginty]

It certainly does sound stupid if you are getting a prepaid card to require ID proving your address.

About five years ago I got a prepaid phone and I don't remember having to provide any ID whatsoever. I remember though a couple years ago there being a big debate because those kinds of phones were being used by gangs to commit all sorts of crimes like fraud. I believe they passed legislation that sought to end the anonymity purchasers of those kinds of phones had previously enjoyed, which probably explains why vodophone is so anal about it. Sounds like a pain in the ass....

[Stosskraft]

Thanks for answering my question.

Don't you love how someone just has to dissect your post, and have a rebuttal for every dam sentence!!

I think it was a rant, plain and simple. We all need to release once in a while living here. And I don't care what anyone says, some of the bureaucracy here is mind-blowing. Just go to a bank or post office to see inefficienty at is best.

By the way, would I be able to register with my Passport and Foreigners card only?

[fluffyhamster]

[fluffyhamster]

[fluffyhamster]

HA, wore them down, finally! I just got a message from the store saying that they'd do it for me because, well, I guess they didn't want me back there wrecking desks anymore by stabbing my tapping index finger down through them (them=the desks). They added that phrase beloved of backpeddling pocket Hitlers who've bitten off more than they can chew and are getting red-faced about it, "just this once, for you only blah blah blah", but I like I could care: I won.

[lajzar]

Well, last month I had to go into city hall for an unrelated reason, and needed to show them my gaijin card. They noticed that the visa period noted on teh front had expired, and asked if I had my passport (which of course has my current visa details in it) with me so that they could update that little piece of info on teh back of the gaijin card.

Basically, immigration is the place to update any details that go into your passport, and has the power to remove offenders from the country. The city hall is the place to update any details that go onto your gaijin card, and has the power to whine incessantly if you fail to keep that card up to date.

I imagine any organisation that wants you to use your gaijin card as a piece of ID has the right to reject that as valid ID if it isn't kept up to date.

[fluffyhamster]

(Double post)