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Finn76
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Mingxiong Chiayi
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 Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: When is enough enough????? |
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O.K. I have a question for you guys: When do you know you have crossed the line from 'This is challenging' to 'This utterly BITES and life is too short to put up with this crap'?... I mean... I am trying to keep perspective as I am in a foreign culture with different attitudes and values, but when is the point where you turn into a complete sucker and leave all YOUR values behind?
I teach at a senior high school (bad, BAD move on my part!).
I have been here almost 2 months, and apart from the usual sleeping in class, lack of motivation to learn, fear of 'standing out' or verbally contributing, teachers sitting in on classes to watch, students spitting on the classroom floor... I have had ...
1. A stick thrown at my head by a student when I didn't reply to "Teacher, you busy tonight???"
2. Told to "*beep* off" by students
3. Staff turn up at my house to spy on me when I am sick (for ONE day)
4. Staff switching my classes and not bothering to tell me
5. Caught boys using mirrors to look up my skirt in class (and my skirt was below my knees)
I know this is a tough school etc etc, and I KNOW the culture is a little immature when it comes to things - but everytime something happens, the staff go "Yes, I know. They can be a little bit naughty sometimes. We will talk to them."
I am asking for opinions - should I quit this ^%^&%&^&**!!@#@$!$!$$@#@#!!!! job in the middle of shitsville and move to Taipei to teach little kids or stick it out? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Personally I would think that it might be time to call it quits. If I remember correctly you have posted a similar complaint a while back and it appears that things aren't getting any better.
Sometimes you can bring kids around, but sometimes if you start out on the wrong foot (or they start out on the wrong foot) it can be next to impossible to see real change. Also the fact that the adminsitration is not giving you too much support is a concern.
Is the position a legal position? By this I mean is the Chinese name of the school the same as the Chinese name of your employer stated on your ARC? Often times teachers such as yourself are employed illegally with the name on your ARC being a trading company or some such organized by a recruiter. In order for you to be legal the employer that you work for must be the employer named on your ARC.
If not, and if you think that you want to leave, then you might want to contact the CLA by phone first for advice on how to proceed. I wouldn't go into details, I would just tell the CLA that you have recently discovered that the employer named on your ARC is not the employer you are working for. I suspect that you will be able to arrange an early release from your contract if these are your circumstances and I believe that the CLA will help you here.
Alternatively you could resign. Make sure that you fulfill the terms of your resignation. It can sometime be a good idea to line a new job up first and have the new employer obtain a work permit for you so that you can keep your ARC with them. |
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Finn76
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Mingxiong Chiayi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Yeh... the problem is they have had my passport for the last 3 weeks applying for my ARC... After that I can see who exactly IS my employer and line up other work.
If I get another job and another company to sponsor my ARC, do I still give a month notice to the current school? (if I decided to quit). IF I decide to bail, I still want to try and do it as amicably as possible as I feel bad for the good kids. I have heard if I give notice BEFORE lining up other work, they are likely to get nasty. Is this true? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Finn76 wrote: |
| Yeh... the problem is they have had my passport for the last 3 weeks applying for my ARC... |
If you have been working for them for two months and you still haven't received an ARC from them then youn probably should be concerned about the legality of the position. The full process of work permit, resident visa, and ARC, should take less than a month.
Also, the school only requires your actual passport for one step of the process and that is the resident visa as the BOCA needs to put this visa in your passport. That only takes 10 days so I wonder why they have had your passport for three weeks? I would be pretty insistent that you need your passport back as you are legally required to have it should the police ever ask you for it. If they tell you that they haven't finished processing the resident visa yet then ask them for the receipt from BOCA and tell them that you would like to pick up the passport from BOCA. If they haven't sent it into BOCA yet then you can get it back from the school and take it to BOCA yourself.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| If I get another job and another company to sponsor my ARC, do I still give a month notice to the current school? (if I decided to quit). IF I decide to bail, I still want to try and do it as amicably as possible as I feel bad for the good kids. I have heard if I give notice BEFORE lining up other work, they are likely to get nasty. Is this true? |
The fact is that if you give notice then they can't blacklist you. They may still be unhappy about your leaving but at least they can't blacklist you.
It seems to me that you are not working there legally as you don't seem to have an ARC with them yet. Therefore you likely have no obligations to them as they can't hold you to work that is not covered by a legal contract. That said I think that it would be wise to still give them notice and make it clear that you are doing so as you understand that this is your obligation under the law, as you don't really want to draw attention to yourself as you could be deported for working illegally.
Get your passport back, line up new work and have them apply for a work permit for you, give written notice in line with either your contract or the law, and then leave. That is my advice as I can see the current job going from bad to worse. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: Leave now! |
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The paradox in Taiwan, is that the older (Senior High) students are often the worst in behaviour compared with Junior High and younger - contrary to the situation in North America where the older age groups are usually more mature, mellow and civilized...not the case in Taiwan which seems to produce a lot of brutish, loud, obnoxious 17-25 year olds many of whom are just overgrown babies.....
From what you say, one has to agree with Griswald...it is probably too late to see an improvement in the situation.
There are thousands of Buxibans throughout Taiwan where you could easily pick up work and be a lot happier....
The suggestion is: Resign from the position because it is UNTENABLE and then work somewhere else. You will have no trouble finding work in Taiwan.
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| Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: Leave now! |
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The paradox in Taiwan, is that the older (Senior High) students are often the worst in behaviour compared with Junior High and younger - contrary to the situation in North America where the older age groups are usually more mature, mellow and civilized...not the case in Taiwan which seems to produce a lot of brutish, loud, obnoxious 17-25 year olds many of whom are just overgrown babies.....
From what you say, one has to agree with Griswald...it is probably too late to see an improvement in the situation.
There are thousands of Buxibans throughout Taiwan where you could easily pick up work and be a lot happier....
The suggestion is: Resign from the position because it is UNTENABLE and then work somewhere else. You will have no trouble finding work in Taiwan.
Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:53 am Post subject: |
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What school do you work at?
I might suggest that you relocate to Taipei as you have a much better chance of actually enjoying you work there.
Please read this,
10 Steps to Success on Taiwan!
Good luck!
A. |
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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Like Clark said, three weeks is a little long to be holding onto your passport. Ask for the BOCA receipt immediately and if they will not provide it, request your passport be returned to you tout suite. |
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buckle
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| where do you live now. I used to be a teacher in ping-tung and life couldnt have been better besides the ole SARS scare. that just weeded out the real teachers. anyways if your looking for a relaxed lifestyle in a small city with lots of opportunity for some big cash, then i suggest head south man. also anybody who reads this, blue star chow fan stand just off of airport road south has the best food in the world. peace out |
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Finn76
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Mingxiong Chiayi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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I am not sure if I am meant to say the name of the school... let me know if I can and I will! It's a senior high school in Minsyong near Chiayi.
Yeh, the recruitment agent in Taijhung has the passport - and says it will be another week and a half as 'senior high school takes longer than conversation schools'. All up about 5 weeks... then I have to go to the police office and get the ARC card (without getting a medical apparently)... My medical insurance never transpired... they have been taking out 20% tax ... if I break my contract and give one month's notice they will withold 20,000NTD from the last month's pay (one third of my pay before tax)...
At the risk of sounding stupid - what is a BOCA receipt ?
Taipei is looking sooo good right about now, but I have to get through this nightmare and out the door here first. Thanks for the advice so far though, this forum has saved my sanity! |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Finn76 wrote: |
I am not sure if I am meant to say the name of the school... let me know if I can and I will! It's a senior high school in Minsyong near Chiayi.
Yeh, the recruitment agent in Taijhung has the passport - and says it will be another week and a half as 'senior high school takes longer than conversation schools'. All up about 5 weeks... then I have to go to the police office and get the ARC card (without getting a medical apparently)... My medical insurance never transpired... they have been taking out 20% tax ... if I break my contract and give one month's notice they will withold 20,000NTD from the last month's pay (one third of my pay before tax)...
At the risk of sounding stupid - what is a BOCA receipt ?
Taipei is looking sooo good right about now, but I have to get through this nightmare and out the door here first. Thanks for the advice so far though, this forum has saved my sanity! |
I think someone here that has good chinese should call this "recruiter" in Taichung. I can see of no reason for a recruiter to have her passport. The school itself has to apply for her work permit....or are schools in the habit of giving their own formal documentation to recruiters that enable them to perform this function by proxy.
It sounds very suspicious to me. Might be time for a payday move.
Given the unsafe environment mentioned in the OP and this new info about the recruiter and fine....I think your Grandmother is about to die the day after payday, if you get my drift.
Damn, I hate to sound all paranoid, but Finn sounds like she's really fallen into the clutches of one of Aristotle's more criminal types.
Finn, you should take your problem to this guy. He'll get things straightened out for you lickety-split. Ask for Yellow Cartman. He will get this recruiter to respect your authority!
Actually his name is Louis (Lew-ee). Keep us posted and let other websites know this story too. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Finn76 wrote: |
I am not sure if I am meant to say the name of the school... let me know if I can and I will! It's a senior high school in Minsyong near Chiayi.
Yeh, the recruitment agent in Taijhung has the passport - and says it will be another week and a half as 'senior high school takes longer than conversation schools'. All up about 5 weeks... then I have to go to the police office and get the ARC card (without getting a medical apparently)... My medical insurance never transpired... they have been taking out 20% tax ... if I break my contract and give one month's notice they will withold 20,000NTD from the last month's pay (one third of my pay before tax)...
At the risk of sounding stupid - what is a BOCA receipt ?
Taipei is looking sooo good right about now, but I have to get through this nightmare and out the door here first. Thanks for the advice so far though, this forum has saved my sanity! |
I think someone here that has good chinese should call this "recruiter" in Taichung. I can see of no reason for a recruiter to have her passport. The school itself has to apply for her work permit....or are schools in the habit of giving their own formal documentation to recruiters that enable them to perform this function by proxy.
It sounds very suspicious to me. Might be time for a payday move.
Given the unsafe environment mentioned in the OP and this new info about the recruiter and fine....I think your Grandmother is about to die the day after payday, if you get my drift.
Damn, I hate to sound all paranoid, but Finn sounds like she's really fallen into the clutches of one of Aristotle's more criminal types.
Finn, you should take your problem to this guy. He'll get things straightened out for you lickety-split. Ask for Yellow Cartman. He will get this recruiter to respect your authority!
Actually his name is Louis (Lew-ee). Keep us posted and let other websites know this story too. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: |
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At the risk of giving the wrong advice, I would call the CLA right now and ask at what stage your work visa, etc is at. If it hasn't yet been approved then, I hope, your school cannot do anything with regards to black listing. Ask whichever agency has your passport for you to pick it up directly. Make sure that they know that no one else has the authority to take your passport.
Your school will then try to keep the $20,000 no matter what you do. They probably won't pay the deducted tax either. Perhaps just take a few days off early next month and then just leave after pay day. They cannot blacklist you if you never had a work visa through them, can they? So even if you do the right thing and give 2-4 weeks notice, they will still try to screw you.
I know that you will disagree Clark, so what do you suggest? Give a month's notice and lose the $20,000 anyway. Hmmm, this might not be a bad way to go after all. You will have to wait another 3 weeks until your pay check anyway, and if you give notice then it might be illegal for them to keep the $20,000. Also, if you never had a work visa through them, then you were working illegally, and then your contract was invalid.
Well, contact the CLA now to see what they think. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Finn76 wrote: |
| I am not sure if I am meant to say the name of the school... let me know if I can and I will! It's a senior high school in Minsyong near Chiayi. |
I don't see how the name of the school would be relevant at this stage. Sort out your situation first and once you are clear of the school then you should write a review of the school and the agent and post these around so that other teachers can avoid them.
It seems to me that the gripe from a legal point of view lies almost solely with the agent.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| Yeh, the recruitment agent in Taijhung has the passport - and says it will be another week and a half as 'senior high school takes longer than conversation schools'. All up about 5 weeks... |
My first question would have been 'Why?'
I have never heard of this and don't believe it. It just doesn't make sense.
I suspect that the reason it is taking longer to process is not a result of official process but a result of the agents efforts to secure you a work permit through unofficial channels. To my knowledge government schools (with the exception of certain needy schools in the MOE's current program) are not permitted to employ foreign teachers and I have warned about this many times in the past. So what happens is that recruiters obtain a work permit and ARC for these teachers through other businesses. This is not a legal position for teachers as the name that appears on your ARC is not the name of your actual employer. Sometimes this is done without the knowledge of the teacher and even the schools in some cases. This behavior by a recruiter is the sort of thing that we all need to expose and hopefully stamp out.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| then I have to go to the police office and get the ARC card (without getting a medical apparently)... |
The process in becoming a legal teacher in Taiwan has been explained many times in the past:
1. medical certificate
2. work permit
3. resident visa
4. ARC
You need to ask your agent why your case is being processed differently.
To my knowledge every foreigner who obtains work in Taiwan needs a medical certificate before a work permit will be issued. Therefore without the medical your application is going nowhere. The fact that it has taken weeks at this stage suggests that the process has not started in your case, and more than likely your passport is still with the agent.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| My medical insurance never transpired... |
You won't be covered by the National Health Insurance scheme until you are working legally. This is a reason that I always recommend that newbies start out with chain schools as you can be pretty sure that all of this will be done.
Given the amount of information out there I am somewhat suprised that teachers continue to take the risk of working illegally by taking jobs in government schools, kindergartens, and high paying offers elsewhere, when the safest course of action is to start in a chain school.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| they have been taking out 20% tax ... |
Assuming that you were working legally then this would be correct if you arrived after the end of June and started working.
There is a legal requirement on the employer to provide you with tax withholding statements for any taxes paid. I would raise this with the school or whoever has been taking the taxes and explain that in the absence of such certificates you would be happy to accept reimbursement of the 'taxes' that have been deducted. Bascially, if they cannot prove that the money has been passed to the tax office then they should return it to you. If you have pay slips or written proof of these deductions then the tax office will be able to help you.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| if I break my contract and give one month's notice they will withold 20,000NTD from the last month's pay (one third of my pay before tax)... |
If that is what you agreed to then that is what you need to accept.
Having said that, it would appear that your position may be an illegal one and I am sure that the CLA will nullify this clause if you raise it with them.
| Finn76 wrote: |
| At the risk of sounding stupid - what is a BOCA receipt ? |
When you hand in your passport for the resident visa the visa office (BOCA) will give you a receipt so that you can pick your passport up ten days later. You mentioned that you were told that your passport was being processed for a visa so the person who submitted it for processing would have a receipt for the passport. As the passport holder you can use the receipt to pick up the passport.
This question is really aimed at calling the recruiters bluff. I don't believe that your passport is at the visa office and therefore they won't be able to produce this receipt but at least you will know this not to be the case.
| Ki wrote: |
| At the risk of giving the wrong advice, I would call the CLA right now and ask at what stage your work visa, etc is at. |
I agree that this would be a very good step to take.
For information about contacting the CLA please click here.
| Ki wrote: |
| If it hasn't yet been approved then, I hope, your school cannot do anything with regards to black listing. |
That is my understanding. You cannot be blacklisted by the CLA unless you are in breach of a work permit.
| Ki wrote: |
| Ask whichever agency has your passport for you to pick it up directly. Make sure that they know that no one else has the authority to take your passport. |
At the end of the day if you have any trouble getting your passport back don't stress. This is one thing that your representative office in Taiwan will actually do to help you. They will contact the local police to assist them in securing your passport which is the property of your country and as such not something that anyone can confiscate.
| Ki wrote: |
| Perhaps just take a few days off early next month and then just leave after pay day. They cannot blacklist you if you never had a work visa through them, can they? So even if you do the right thing and give 2-4 weeks notice, they will still try to screw you. |
I don't think that it is ever a good idea to take matters into your own hands no matter how justified you may feel in doing so. Remember that this is what got Frankie Knuckles blacklisted for life from teaching in Taiwan.
My suggestion is to either give the required amount of notice or contact the CLA for assistance.
Popfly's suggestion is also a good one. There is a company that you can pay to assist you (ML McLean). I am not sure that they can do anything that you can't do yourself, but I am confident that they can probably make things a lot easier and less stressful for you. |
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Finn76
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Mingxiong Chiayi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Griswald.
Actually, it is a private school - not Govt, and I went through John Dewey Consulting which is meant to be well respected... but your caring criticism is noted and I realise I did half of the things suggested NOT to do in the 10 Steps to Success in Taiwan http://www.geocities.com/taiwanteacher2002/Success.html
You can call me PosterGirl for what not to do!! woo hoo!!!!! |
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