Job Discussion Forums

[orient express]

For a start a bit of background about myself. I'm a 31-year old lawyer (male). I spent 5 and a half years at one of the City monsters (including one year in Paris) and am currently at a small London firm. I am about to be made redundant and am also seriously contemplating a change of career. Frankly this redundancy is the best thing that could have happened.

I took a career break in 2003. I lived in Beijing for 8 months (through SARS!) and loved every minute of it. I spent my time intensively learning Mandarin. I have a natural aptitude and enthusiasm for learning languages. I speak 4 foreign languages - all fairly fluently. I am probably on the boundary between intermediate and advanced level Mandarin.

Given that my loves in life are languages, meeting people and seeing the world, a career in language training looks really appealing. Frankly law has become dry, limiting and isn't a good fit with my character. Teaching is a far better fit.

Given my background, a logical step for me would be to teach lawyers and other business people. I know this might not be as interesting as teaching general English, however friends of mine in London are language trainers and they say they enjoy meeting bright, interesting people. Alternatively I�d prefer to teach those already with an advanced level of English at university level.

I would like to return to Beijing, Shanghai or to any other large (preferably Mandarin-speaking) Chinese city. My initial thinking is working for a firm that provides language training to institutions within the city.

I�ve researched this a bit and know about TEFL qualifications fairly easily � oh and having spent a year as an assistant in Rouen (I studied French at university), I do have some teaching experience (indeed I have a number of other areas of language-teaching experience). However the truth is I�m a bit daunted by the things. For me this would be a career change � not just a way to tour the world and pay my way as I went.

Obviously the best thing to do would be to arrive in Beijing/Shanghai and start networking. However does anyone know of any businesses that offer language training services or does anyone have any other pointers? I know that there are people out there who would be delighted to see my CV (and hopefully might not insist on post-TEFL qualification experience). It's just accessing them! Tactically I�m really na�ve and so any thoughts would be really gratefully welcome.

Specifically too, I�m keen to know what qualifications would be well received. I have an English/French degree plus all that experience as a solicitor. I know that nothing compares to real life teaching experience � but at the same time the Chinese are a bit qualifications obsessed.

I guess the main reason I�m posting this is that I�d love to strike up correspondence with a lawyer who has converted to TEFL. Gosh, I sound really serious in this mail but I promise I'm really a cheeky little chap. I really look forward to hearing from you!

[Songbird]

Hey Orient!

Wow, what a change- are you REALLY sure this is what you want?? How much research have you done in the ESL field here? The pay is very low (you WILL be going from an extreme high, I assume, to an extreme low)- from about 4000 RMB upwards. And sorry, even being a lawyer but with no ESL experience will probably be no help. Perhaps you could try a business language school with students from business who are very serious about learning English, perhaps even Wall Street Institute in Beijing would be suited to you. However, if you go into the sticks a bit you may get lucky with okay wages- I'm in a village in Gansu Province (the nearest city, Xian, is an 8 hour bus ride away so it's extreme!) and I earn 4500 (most of which is madly being saved) teaching student teachers.

Or perhaps Japan? South Korea has the best wages (WAY better than China!). You didn't actually say which country you're from- the Koreans are very discriminatory in that they're obessessed with hiring only North Americans. I hate this because I'm looking for a job for within the next couple of months there and I'm AUSTRALIAN!

Hope this helps

[Volodiya]

I'm not sure what questions are left to be answered- it appears to me you're as ready to teach in China as necessary, and far more ready than most who come here.

Lots of universities would be happy to give you a 12-14 hour teaching position, with accomodation included, giving you a good base on which to build your life and work, in China. While salaries tend to be lower in China, there will be many opportunities to increase your earnings, if you don't saddle yourself with a job that uses you all up, each week.

Teaching English will require that you acquire some specific skills and knowledge that you may not have needed up to now, but can be learned, to a degree, on the job, especially if you find yourself in a supportive environment. A 120 hour TEFL course would give you a leg up, in this regard, and help you find your way more quickly. (Just knowing a few English teaching practices will help you feel more confident and give the students confidence, too, that you know what you're doing.)

Over time, you'll find ways to make your teaching more rewarding, and interesting- incorporating some of your specialized background (such as by teaching at a law school). Lots of opportunities will present themselves, if you take to this and your students take to you.

Just do it. I don't think you'll regret it.

[Roger]

A mon avis, quelqu'un qui maitrise et l'anglais et le francais et le mandarin et qu,en plus, est un avocat, N'ENSEIGNEPAS L'ANGLAIS en Chine!

But that's just my personal idea, man; you can safelyignore it.

You as a legally-trained individual should try to land yourself a legal position; your hints of "networking" sound a bit as though you were keen on freelancing, which is illegal. You oughtto aim for a sponsorship.

But that's where it starts being unpleasant: who is interested in hiring a language instructoor with such specialised English expertise? You won't find many bright students up to yourexpectations,make no mistake about that! Those who can pay for higher postgraduate studies abroad will try by hook and by crook to go abroad.

Thus, you will have to compete for a job with the ordinary TEFLing crowds. You will no doubt end up doing mainly "oral English" or "conversation classes".

You know, of course, that there are a number of foreign-funded lawyers' practices in China? Besides, you might have other talents that are marketable here - you could be in the pay of a foreign-owned business. Certainly far more lucrative than teaching - and taking orders from incompetent parents and principals!

[Volodiya]

Roger wrote:

[erinyes]

I would go to http://shanghai.asiaxpat.com/careers from there you can search many big cities and even narrow the search and the jobs are not only in the education feild... you might like this one: http://shanghai.asiaxpat.com/careers/details.asp?id=19CD739C-B0E5-46F7-B9FF-4BD70326B1EB

If you want to teach, I would get a TESOL, CELTA, certificate... before you leave. if you have never been a teacher then it'll give you a good foundation, and they are often asked for.

[Babala]

To the OP, I wish you all the best. I would also suggest a TEFL course which will really come in handy for a first time teacher. Unfortunately, I don't think your law degree will be much more of an asset than any other degree. I have worked with 2 ex-lawyers over here and their previous lawyer status didn't count for anything. If you want to teach adults, I suggest an adult training center.

[therock]

Why don't you consider taking a year off first. Try it and if you like it then you can continue. At your prime age it would be waste to throw away your Law career and end up working as an English Instructor in China. It's understandable that you have itching feet, but think really carefully before you decide to change careers. Be warned you will take a nose dive in salary!! Goodluck in whatever you choose.

[Volodiya]

Hey, t.r., what's the difference in terms of his law career whether he "takes a year off" or works for a year as an English teacher, in China? It's still a year away from his "career".

Why is it that people are concerned about his leaving the legal profession to teach English? He wouldn't be considering a change unless he was tired of the life he's been leading. Nothing is more common than people coming into TEFL from other careers. TEFL is one of the most liberating things people can do, who can solve the problems related to low salaries.

[erinyes]

Maybe people think differently about leaving the law profession because it's one of those jobs that most children think about doing... "humm, should I be a lawyer or a doctor or a fire fighter?"

[Keath]

Volodiya - you need to take a pill or something before you have a heart attack.

Lawyer Dude - I left a really high paying corporate position 7 years ago to travel and explore China, I haven't gone back to corporate America yet and have no regrets. If you have lived in Paris and liked it, Beijing is probably the best place to settle in.. (If you like big cities) Personally, I like the smaller cities where one can easily make friends and network..

Mind you, a small town scenario for a big city person is refreshingly temporary. Small town are easier to make friends and develop close bonds with the local government and important business people. More than a year in a small town might be too much though..

Bring your backpack, travel around a bit and see where you fit in.. Let the unknown be your guide for awhile. You're 31, you've been in school your whole life..

Anyway good luck on you mate!

PS> Keeping consistant with my other posts, I dont' advocate job seekers to come to China without arranging some type of legal venue for work due to new visa regulations and the difficulty with converting tourist visas to Z visas.. however, if you have enough money to tour about and can make it to Hong Kong and back without breaking the bank, its worth having a look before you settle in.

Cheers

Keith
TEACH ENGLISH IN CHINA
www.journeyeast.org

[voodikon]

[orient express]

Many thanks for all your responses. They really are helpful and it's great of you to spare the time to write. Thanks in particular for the weblink, erinyes. And thanks, Keith, I'll check out the latest on visas. I thought upgrading from tourist to working visa was fairly easy. I'll check other postings as I'm sure this has come up plenty of times before.

I have an English/French degree from a good university (Southampton) in the UK. I then did the law conversion course, technically a 'postgraduate diploma in law' (a year-long course that puts you in the same position as those that did an undergraduate degree in law). To me that seems a fantastic grounding: a thorough knowledge of my own language plus, having studied other languages, an appreciation of linguistics and teaching methods, plus a thorough knowledge of legal English.

A relevant masters degree would undoubtedly help. To my mind there would be no point doing this without having some teaching experience behind me (though I know there are TEFL masters that require no previous teaching experience). Is it possible to undertake this abroad (presumably long-distance learning), or are there local qualifications that might be worthwhile?

I have to confess that I am worried I met get bored of teaching after a while. I love China and I'm hoping to master the Chinese language in a couple of years (ambitious but possible) and who knows what options that might bring. At the very least translation and interpreting would open up for me. Maybe my social conscience will push me off into more benevolent areas.

The pay cut is inevitable. My bigger concern is wanting to return home in ten years and finding a job market stacked against me - though at least legislation against age discrimination will be in place by then!

[therock]