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Hector_Lector · Joined: 20 Apr 2004 Posts: 548

20 years ago, most Spanish students seemed incapable of progressing beyond an elementary level of English. Despite that, schools would promote them to higher levels, the result being that learners in �upper-intermediate� classes were still elementary.

This seems to have changed now.

What�s the Turkish situation?

justme · Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Istanbul

Funny....

yaramaz · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:59 am Post subject:

Funny haha or funny.. *shiver*?

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

There are definitely more higher level students now than there were over a decade ago. Probably due to the number of private schools that get the kids when they are young.

justme · Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Istanbul

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Turkish students seem to catch on to English at a faster pace than Spanish students, in general. This is also true if you compare Turkey with other 'Romance Language' countries (Italy/France/Portugal), and one suspects that motivation may have a part in the equation.

In France, for example, many students do not take English that seriously, because they know that French is one of the World Principle languages, and they also (the French) hope that it will remain so. The Turks know (the smart ones) that English is a prerequisite to many careers and even in regular Turkish Universities, many Departments use English Language Textbooks.

The Turks, also have a nice 'soft' way of speaking English, where the accent is not too strong....compared with Romance speakers, who, for all their charm, can really butcher the English language, with various degrees of mispronunciation.

But to get back to the original question - many students, irrespective of where they are (and in different countries) are 'wrongly' placed, and this has more to do with the evaluation process, with all the weaknesses that many evaluation processes have, if all the parameters are not looked at in a systematic and objective way.

Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan.

Mark Loyd · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 517

yaramaz · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject:

I have found (through 2 years working in a kolej, and now in the university prep) that the kids who emerge from the kolej system tend to come out with a pre-int level of English, even after 10-12 years of study. And many of them think that because they studied for 10-12 years that there is nothing more left for them to learn and so do exactly that-- learn no more.

The kids who never studied English in school (maybe they studied German etc, or no language at all), and the kids who went to public schools, seem to be able to catch up with and quickly surpass those who peaked in pre-int in their kolej...

No conclusions here- just a few observations.

molly farquharson · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 839 Location: istanbul

ghost, I don't think students are wrongly placed so much as the ones who move up have usually done the minimum to get there. This has been my experience in the US, Japan, and here, and the students in the US were from every country imaginable. I am sure you kow from experience that students who place into a level are usually higher than the ones who have passed into it. Here in Turkey students often negotiate with the person placing them and some sweet talk their way into the wrong level because they are in a hurry-- and then waste their time. Placement is an issue, however, and some schools are pretty weak at it. However, I have to say that I think we have a good placement system and it usually works.

teacher_istanbul · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 1

I believe it is exactly the same everywhere.
Im sure they still do the same in Spain and they are doing it as well in Turkey. This is business after all.Unfortunately, money comes first, then, education.

I do not agree with the statement that Turkish students learn at a faster pace than Spanish students, I think it couldnt be more wrong!
Spanish language is much more similar to English than Turkish, for example, syntax is pretty much the same. There are articles and prepositions in Spanish as well as in English. Verb tenses are more similar between Sp and En than between En and Tuk. I think low level Turkish students struggle the most with syntax and it takes them a while to get used to the reverse word order.

As for accents...not really sure there! It is true Spanish speakers have an awful accent when speaking English and would agree they butcher the language...But Im not so sure Turks are doing much better.

Mark Loyd · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 517

Students who pay fees at my place can enter any class they like. All they have to do is pay and the Turkish staff listen to their nonsense. We had a student who was a beginner but wanted to learn fast so he attended two levels. He went to a beginners class and on the same day an elementary.

molly farquharson · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 839 Location: istanbul

really? where do you work mark?

Mark Loyd · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 517

TeachEnglish · Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 239

Hehe.. Money does make a difference to most of the language centers.. The sales staff really makes the teacher/instructors' jobs difficult. I have had to deal with students that were promised they would speak English in a month. Of course the simple minded Turk believed the liar in the sales department... but what really mattered to me was that I had to deal with the unhappy student. Students in the wrong level are a problem for instructors as well as other students. If a student wants to be in a higher level than his or her ability, then they should have to pay more for private lessons. Let the money talk all it wants to, but not at the expense of the instructor and other students.