Job Discussion Forums

[Rachel Stevens]

Having read a great many of the posts from folks such as myself who are considering teaching in China, but have no real notion of where they might want to do so, I am not expecting a lot of specific guidance on the subject, but HEY! You never know. I am in my fifties, rather tall (6'1'), athletic and blonde (I only mention those attributes because I've noticed that many schools are concerned about appearance, there being no other reason to request a photo as part of the hiring process). I am a TEFL certified recovering trial lawyer. Yes, I know, having been a lawyer is not likely to do me any good in China. That's okay. It's not doing me any good here either. I am drawn to China because of my interest in the culture. I considered Taiwan, but I'm somewhat turned off by the high-octane commercialism of the place and what I perceive to be a much greater western influence. I could be wrong there. But the money is certainly enticing. So, my first question is, what, if anything, other than the money, does Taiwan have to offer that any medium-sized city in China doesn't offer in terms of quality teaching opportunities and quality of life?
And what might be the cost of urban living in China? Again, in a medium-sized city. I'm not really looking at Beijing or Shanghai. I need to be able to set aside approximately $200 a month for debt service. Is that going to be possible in China? Getting tired yet? Good. Next question. Is it best for a newbie such as myself to settle on a school before I go, or should I just wing it when I get there? Are recruiters an efficient and reliable way to go? In order to teach in China would I need to provide any documentation beyond my passport and my teaching credentials? Okay, enough with the general questions, already. Let's get specific. I came across a novel posting from a school called Zesty English in Dandong. It's run by Aussies I believe. Anybody know anything about it? Dandong's across the river from North Korea, so I figure it's colder than a grave digger's whatever. But that means that they at least have seasonal changes, I suppose. And that's a good thing. And they say that the sky there is blue, which is a real plus. (I've spent some time in Thailand, so I know what it's like to choke down fumes all day.) I'd really prefer a milder climate, I think, and a university job, but what do I know? The people are what really make the experience worthwhile.

This is much too long-winded, isn't it? Sorry. Be gentle with me.

Rachel

[Jizzo T. Clown]

[ebolayatollah]

Hello fellow newbie! I'll be gentle with you if you are gentle with me. We can all be gentle together.

I'm also looking to teach in China and have just about come to some solid decisions about what I'm going to do. What caught my eye in your post was the idea of setting aside $200 a month to save and pay off debt back home.

I'm in a somewhat similar situation. Though I'm planning on building up some cash before I leave so I don't have to worry about it as much when I'm there. If you don't have the option to do that, then maybe consider finding some online work that you can do. It sounds like with your experience you could find work writing for various sites, or editing documentation or English for Chinese websites or publications. All you need is an internet connection. That way you could make that little extra on top of your salary.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Ebola Ayatollah aka Chris.

[Roger]

So you have financial debts but expect China to be less commercially exploitative than, say, Taiwan?
Sounds to me like a bit of a contradiction. If you really want to avoid commercialism and consumerism, then don't come to China! Culture? What's that? In China: it is about making money, matey!

But an honest answer to an honest question: those 200 yoyos you mentioned are in U.S. currency, right? That means about 1700 kuai a month. Easy to save almost anywhere, even in Dandong.

But the whole rest of your questions have been dealt with in a number of stickies. Please, refer to them and come back with more precise queries!
It saves time, and we can remain civil.

[therock]

Living in a medium sized city, you should be able to live off between 2000 and 3000RMB. I spend about 2000RMB per month and I eat out most nights. The minimum you should be earning is between 3000 to 5000RMB per month. So saving 2000 to 3000RMB a month is realistic.

To work in China you will need to have a medical examination in order to get the correct documentation to work here.

In China there are some good agencies, but quite a lot of agencies that are only interested in scamming the foreigner. You don't need an agency to help you, but if you must use one then why not try China Teaching Network. I was going to use them last year, they seem to be reasonable.

[JDYoung]

1. I don't know about Taiwan but commercialism in mainland China is alive and well and expanding fast.

2. I'm quite happy with the money I earn here and my school is rather stingy in that regard. However, I have no debts to pay off and nice pension payments going into the bank each month in my home country. You could probably save $200 a month but not if you want to live a western lifestyle while you're in China.

3. I would say, settle on a school before you head for China. The paperwork is much easier that way as you may (depending on the province in China where you will work) need a special visa (Z) that you can't get while actually in China.

4. I've never used a recruiter. The general opinion on the forums here seems to be that they are not, as a rule, either efficient or reliable.

5. All I've needed is my passport, degree and TEFL certificate. You may have to have a medical at some point depending on your length of stay.

6. I don't know about Zesty English but I've visited Dandong. It's about a 4 hour train ride from where I teach. As I'm Canadian I haven't found much in China that was too cold for me. What temperature and for what length of time would put you off completely? Dandong does have four distinct seasons. The sky is blue - sometimes.

7. I think a university job is the way to go. The hours are shorter, the hours are often better and the students have finished the cram session that passes for high school here. You have a better chance of getting genuinely interested students than you do in many private enterprise schools.

All I can say is come with an open mind. Although China is modernizing at a rapid degree, they are modernizing "with Chinese characteristics" which often has results that totally baffle westerners.

About being long-winded - it's much easier to answer posts like yours than some short-winded ones that go "Will I like teaching in China."

[latefordinner]

If possible, try to hook up with a school directly, rather than through a recruiter. Yes I know, buzzards gotta eat same as worms, but still I would avoid them all the same. Try to get a job ahead of time. If nothing else, you can avoid some (not all by any means) bad schools by their inability/unwillingness to sposor your Z visa. It's merely one test among many.
My wife is from a town in the Dandong area. It gets a bit cold and windy in winter, and this is a Canadian saying it. You may find heating and insulation to be less energy efficient than you are used to. If you enjoy the winter, bring your skates. (I'm still trying to find a pair for my rather large feet)
China has always, it seems, been either in a state of denial, a state of conflict, or of infatuation with western cultures and values. Today it seems as if its all three at once. It's a fascinating time to be here, but also very frustrating day to day.
I don't know how to advise you as regards the money. I have less now than when I left Canada 3 years ago, but then I've been making maintenance payments on an partment that I own but don't live in. (Can't get rid of it) Had I sold it when I left, received a reasonable price, and banked all the payments since, I'd now have a pretty nice down payment on a pretty nice place here. Here lies one important caveat for the foreign teacher; it's better not to have financial obligations back home. The economics of living and working in the PRC strongly favour the backpacking 20-something over the experienced professional. There hangs many a tale untold.

[nolefan]

in theory, it is easy enough to save about $200 USD every month even on a university salary of 4000RMB provided you don't indulge yourself too much in western goodies.

Every trip i take to Beijing end up costing me about 1000 RMB between the bus and my essential supply of cheese, wine, liquor and other crap.

Keep in mind i teach only 16 hours a week and i could be making a heck of a lot more if i wanted to but only a few schools in my city will be able to pay my asking price of 200 RMB/hour. I just turned down an offer today for 150/hour because it conflicted with my badminton practice. Then again, I did not come here to make money but to learn the language and experience the culture.

In other words, book your flight and come on over. making the money won't be as much of an issue as sending it back home.... that's where the real problems come in.

[7969]

having been in both taiwan and china, i can tell you this:

1. you can definitely make more money in taiwan, easily 3 times what you make in china but you'll have to work twice as long. still an advantage. easier to save money in taiwan, even tho the cost of living is somewhat higher than china.

2. there's little difference between chinese and taiwanese cities these days. the chinese cities are a bit dirtier in general, and you'll find less english spoken in most parts of china than taiwan.

3. taiwan is easier to get around. good public transit (outside of the cities at least) and of course taiwan is a lot smaller than china. good international air connections in taiwan as well. on the other hand, china has more to see since its more geographically diverse.

7969

[laska]

The first year I was here I worked in a university in a relatively small Eastern city. I will never regret the experience. I was the only foreign teacher at the school. I had little supervision and a lot of interaction with teachers, students and people from the community. I think a lot of people here will agree that it can be a wonderful adventure.

Now I work freelance in Shanghai. Being in a big city has its advantages. More anonymity. Shanghai is booming. I visited Taipei once for three weeks. I find Shanghai and the Mainland in general more interesting and exciting, but that's just me.

I agree about working in the university environment. It could be a very good experience for your first year in China. The situations differ a lot. I wonder whether you might be able to find a college that doesn't have a lot of foreign English teachers already working there. You might be more appreciated and you might find that you get to make up more of the rules. At the same time, the lack of anonymity might be stifling until you set boundaries.

On the other hand, working in a private language school to start out with might be a good experience only if the school is well-managed and you don't have to work too hard. 20 to 30 teaching hours per week is, frankly, exploitive in my opinion, at least at the wages you will be getting paid. You will be too tired to learn Mandarin efficiently. And so few of the private schools are really well-managed. In fact, I've never seen one that is. But I'm sure they're out there.

I also pay debts; mine are in the States. It's easy enough to do here. I think it would probably be the same in other places as long as you are not in the podunks. Servicing debt from China might seem a little difficult to someone just out of college, but someone with your experience shouldn't be too intimidated by a little red tape and a couple forms to fill out. As a foreign expert (at least in Shanghai) you are now allowed to exchange up to $2000/month I believe, above board. And a Chinese friend will usually be able to help you exchange money other ways, which you can do yourself if you already speak Mandarin. Once you get the money, take it to the bank and send it home. It's pretty simple. Western Union is cheaper if you can find one. And there may be other ways to send money overseas as well. Then I do internet banking, and can take care of everything quite easily from the comfort of home. (I know all this info is probably already in stickys. And I know you didn't exactly ask for all this information, so sorry if I'm off the mark.)

I made RMB 3000/month the first year I was here. I would have had no problem sending RMB 2000/month back to the States. But I live pretty simply. And costs have gone up. So have wages, I'm sure. And you can almost always moonlight as long as you keep it low profile. A lot depends on relationships, everything is flexible. So bring some gifts. Several cartons of cigarettes, some good chocolates, maybe some whiskey.

[brsmith15]

If you send me a PM with your email address, I'll forward you a copy of my latest book, "Living in the Shadow of the Chairman." I wrote it for folks like you.

You know, you might try hooking up with a large university and see if they want someone to teach business law. Many students are now interested in the subject because China is very weak in this area right now, having nothing like your UCC..

[Nauczyciel]

If you were going to China to teach for the first time . . .


...I would choose a state-owned university - less money than private enterprises, but the salaries are surer, managers more honest and schedules relaxed.