Job Discussion Forums

[VoxiBurchenau]

Regina, if you're still watching this board and need more input here it is:

I'm a Black American woman whose been living here for a little over a year now. I've been offered positions at several TEFL schools including some of the most scandalous and have worked for two pretty decent ones. Employment has never been a problem for ME here because of my race.

That's not to say I didn't want to jump ship and get the hell out of here after about an hour of my arrival. I'm from Manhattan and considered myself a survivor but only recently has daily life here as someone who practically 'glows' in Istanbul stopped making me want to vomit. Turks are generally gruff, and when you mix that with their obsessive voyeurism....well you'll see. Be prepared to be stared at seemingly constantly, and sometimes in the most rude, gape-mouthed manner - seriously.

There is profound racism in Turkey, don't let anyone fool you. You will however have an easier time here if you are not African-born and that's another sad truth. Turks are just getting used to the idea that Blacks exist all over the world, but their stereotype of Africans in this country is as 'in transit' or drug dealers, therefore ignorant and savage. Of course this doesn't apply to all Turks blah, blah, blah but I was shocked when I came here. People describe getting stared at as if it's a minor inconvenience but as a Black person it hit me very hard, because our experience as being singled out for being different isn't 'cute' or 'funny' it's painful and stressful. You are constantly on guard, your public life is hijacked by perverts, thugs, kids, housewives and provincial migrants who you'll most likely be scrutinized by when going to the store, walking to and from work, paying your bills etc. I've had a few racial slurs thrown at me which you may or may not get, i.e. "yama yama" = cannibal/neanderthals, "Negro", and "arapca" which has evolved to a slang of *beep*. These were in all honesty 3 events, if more I didn't hear or notice it.

I've tons of friends here, mostly Turkish, and they haven't asked me stupid questions like some Euros for example, "but where are you from originally"? And Turks will ask you tons of questions about your life, your hair ad nauseum but overall I haven't found it to be aggressive or disrespectful. It took me about 8 months, a lot of insomnia, and some agoraphobia before I decided I'd stay here for at least 2 years.

I live around Istiklal and deal with the general crap that all woman not living in gated communities do here and my advice per that is LOOK THE LOWLIVES DEAD IN THE EYE. Turkish guys can be mama's boys, they'll try to screw w/you but don't give an inch, take the advantage away from them. Not to say that some things you won't have to let go, but fight back, I do, respect your safety and when appropriate, beat them with your shoulderbag (works better in daylight). Yeah they may think you're easier because you're Black but all foreign women get this, Blacks, blondes etc. I'm still here, and maybe I don't get the spotlight as much or I just don't notice but it'll probably take you a little longer to adjust than it would a White person in your situation, but if you can last six months to a year you'll already have passed the worst of it.

PM me I've got a great social network, may come in handy. Good luck...........

[tweaka]

HI,

I'm new the the forum and came directly to this post because I'm thinking about doing some research and perhaps a little teaching in Turkey. I am married to a Turk and I'm a black woman.

I was SHOCKED to read what you posted and I posed this to my husband. He said that yes, blacks are still a bit of a novelty but it really depends on where you visit. His parents have been here to visit and were the ones that told him to marry a black woman.

I'm wondering if perhaps I should rethink a visit.

Did you have any difficulty finding a position and how long were you over there?

I'm working on a PhD in educational technology and have ESL certification with 11 years in teaching.

Your input is really great!

Thanks
T

[CECTPA]

I was really digging Istanbul; I'm going back again next week for a feasibility study as I am thinking about relocating.

People stare at anybody who stands out in some way over there. Apparently if you're blonde it's even more pronounced. It's nowhere near as bad as some other countries I've been to. Nobody bothered me, but maybe I just wasn't there long enough...
I can't pass for anything other than a black woman, and I was OK. But obviously different people have different experiences.

I managed to deceive them into thinking I speak Turkish; that came in handy.

You have nothing to lose by checking it out, is my .02. Better yet you're Turkish by marriage, so that could be really interesting.

[justme]

The staring IS really hrd to get used to, and there are days where it feels like more than a minor inconvenience. It's interesting you mention bouts of agoraphobia, Voxi. I thought I was the only one. In my family there's a streak, no, a swath of mental illness, and agoraphobia amongst the women has hit every generation. It's amazing the excuses I can come up with not to leave the house. Of course here, I do have an excuse-- outside can really be challenge here, and I really can't deal some days, or sometimes for a few days because I just can't muster the energy to deal with the stares, questions, or just the added difficulty of getting through minor interactions. My relatives don't really have these excuses, but I wonder just the same.

Sometimes I have a sense of humor. I just pretend I'm famous and they all want to be me. Sometimes I look them in the eye and say 'Yes?' or 'Buyurun,' which usually leaves me feeling bad because often, especially women just say something really nice, like 'you're so pretty' or 'you have baby's eyes' (add blue eyes to blond hair to the list of things that draw stares-- and not only do they stare, but they look directly into your eyes which is really disconcerting).

But then there are things like mothers ENCOURAGING their children to stare, like 'Look at the yabancı, hayatım, what is she doing?,' or Migros employees gathering around my cart to point at the contents.

Sigh. If it weren't for all the good things here....

[teacherdude]

Just thought I'd throw this in.

There was an Indo-Malaysian girl working in Taks.

Now she's of East Indian descent, but quite dark. And had to put up with lots of stares, as is the norm when u are different in Turkey.

One day whilst shopping in the supermarket with her Turkish friend, a Turk came up and said to her friend that he would like to "buy her."

She made it clear that her Malaysian friend was not for sale, but the guy persisted...assuring that he would pay well.

Alas... she wasn't for sale.

TD

[CECTPA]

"YOU can't afford me!" is the answer to that.

I find that the best deterrent to anyone who takes it into his head to interfere with you is to act like you belong there and you know where you're going. But that's a universally applicable urban defensive stance.

Also, what sometimes works in the States with shady types who seem as if they're going to bother you, is to acknowledge their presence and keep walking. It may sound touchy-feely bleeding-heart liberal, but all some of the street people want is a little attention.

[VoxiBurchenau]

Hi Tweaka,
I had no trouble at all finding a TEACHING job here. I haven't felt any discrimination as far as my job hunt goes from Turkish or foreign managers, so if you're looking in that direction, based on my experience, and your own of course, you should do well. I recently met a French woman who is Black that moved here from Indonesia w/husband and three kids in July, she's leaving already. We had almost all of the same issues here, walking excessively guarded through streets, putting up w/the stares, which are suffocating sometimes as others will tell you, and and the hurtfulness of racial slurs and NO often even your best urban defenses don't work, Istanbullites live in an urban jungle too, so they're not generally impressed. She wondered why I'm still here and it was impossible to convey to her that things just might settle better after some time here because I was in the same desperate situation and I almost left MANY times as well. My advice is to seek out Black contacts here which are much more rare than white expats. There are many similarities between our experiences here but there are several differences as well that may only be understood by another Black person, a support network never hurt. If you'd like to study here and work, especially if it's your husband's home, go for it. Surround yourself w/the cream of the crop, Turks and foreigners, and give yourself at least 6 months to like, love, or hate the place - After a little over 1 year here I still vacillate sometimes. PM me if you need any more help

[globetrekker1]

Hi everyone,

Thanks sooo much for all of your responses!! I had stopped visiting this Forum because it had been hijacked. I am very happy to see that the topic is being addressed and is back on track.

After reading what you've written, I must admit that I have some reservations about coming down to Turkey and teaching. Nevertheless, I have purchased a plane ticket and will fly down on December 23rd to check out the city of Istanbul for myself. If anyone would like to meet me, just send me a PMS and let me know when and where.

Take care and thanks again!
Globtrekker

[CECTPA]

Checking something out before you decide is never a mistake. It's the smartest way to take a big risk, I find. Good luck!

My advice is learn some Turkish before you come. There are many Internet sites with basic phrases, etc. and some really get into more advanced vocab. If you can at least answer someone who says "Hello, how are you?" order a meal, and ask directions, you're rolling. A lot of people speak at least some English, but don't bank on it.

The biggest color issue I'm having with Turks right now is GREEN, as in, the creeps in Sultanahmet see an obvious foreigner and come sidling up to ply me with tea and "just show" me some very nice carpets... and they keep looking for loopholes in the word NO. Really irritating, and nowhere to hide. I keep begging off in a drama-queen fashion, as if I'm crawling off to my hotel room to die or something.