Job Discussion Forums

[DirtGuy]

Hi.

I have been sent a contract from Songyuan Eastern Star Foreign Language School. This is for a 2.5 month stint teaching English to businessmen. There are some things in the contract that really bother me and I would like to know if they are legit or even normal:

1. I will be required to work 6 days a week and possibly 7 at the school's discretion.

2. I have to be there from 7:30 AM to 8:30 PM. In addition to scheduled teaching hours, I must make myself available for pretty much any other activities the school deems fit.

3. The pay is 400 USD payable at the end of the month. Overtime is 40 RMB per hour but does not include any time I spend with students during my "office hours". I am expected to be available to the students pretty much any time I am at school but not teaching.

4. The school deducts 500 RMB per month "to ensure teaching stability" and then I get this back at the end of the contract.

5. An apartment is provided and I pay all utilities.

I should tell you this is my first experience teaching overseas. The reason for doing some sort of winter camp program is to "test the waters" and see what it is like. I am not expecting to make tons of money but nor do I want to get ripped off.

This contract looks to me like slave labor. Am I right?

BTW: Does anyone know of a good winter camp position? I am not really picky as to location or much of anything else. I just want to have some fun and see what working in China is like.

Thanks for your help.

DirtGuy

[Super Mario]

The most expoitative deal I've ever seen. Walk away. There is far better available in China even for the greenest newbie. RMB/ hour for your base should be a minimum 80 an hour; overtime 100 plus. And I'm not talking big city here.
Wasn't it Woody Guthrie who said some people rob you at the point of a gun, others do it with a fountain pen?
Keep on walking.

[bearcanada]

You sound like such a wonderful, innocent newbie, I would be delighted to help you.

First, get your dictionary and look up the word "gullible", then the word "sap". That will start you in the right direction. I'm not thinking so much of you as I am of your opinion of the people on this board.

Let's see. 3,000 RMB minus 500 for safekeeping is about 2,500 RMB for only 13 hours a day, so roughly between 80 and 90 hours a week. And all you have to pay is your utilities? Sounds good to me. I say take it before someone else does. You don't want to make a lot of money, so this is right up your alley.

Your suggestion for a winter camp is a wonderful one and, since you're not picky about "location or anything else", I have two suggestions.

First, you might try Tuktoyaktuk. It's not in China, but if you're as gullible as you pretend, you're much safer at the North Pole where you can't do so much harm to yourself and everyone around you.

On the other hand, if "testing the waters" is really what you want to do, may I suggest the island of Nauru? It's ideally located in the South Pacific, halfway between nowhere and nowhere, and is unique because it's the only island in the world made entirely of centuries-old layers of birdsh*t. Just like your post.

Welcome to China.


Disclaimer:
"Do not eat. Not for use by children under 3. Do not leave in direct sunlight. May cause headache if worn instead of hat. Colors may vary. Batteries not included." (Courtesy of DOS)

[DirtGuy]

OK. I think I get the idea. This job is a bad one and I will certainly pass on it. Actually, I am glad I got the offer. It allows me see how things can work in China and will help me in the future.

Super Mario: Thanks for the hard numbers. This gives me something to use as a reference.

bearcanada: I am going to assume you got up on the wrong side of the bed and are actually a nice guy at heart. In amongst everthing else there is the info I was looking for.

FYI: This really is my first post on the China board as well as my first trip overseas to work. I make a very good living in the US and do not need any more money. During our rainy season I cannot work so I figured it would be good to finally put my TEFL certificate to use.

[andyscott84]

bearcanada, is there really any need for that?

First of all if it is teaching businessmen it might not be as many classes as you think. Find out exactly how many classes they want you to do each day. They might be saying they want you on standby in case another class pops up out of nowhere. It might end up being that you spend a lot of tiem in the office and less than 20 hours teaching each week. I could be wrong about that, so check it out. 3,200 yuan isn't too bad if you aren't trying to save, can certainly buy you a lot of food, beer and fun. Just ask a few more questions.

[bearcanada]

Andy Scott, you're making me cry. 3,200 RMB for 13 hours a day, 7 days a week, plus on call the rest of the time? The post was a joke. You're being had. Really.

Disclaimer:
"Do not eat. Not for use by children under 3. Do not leave in direct sunlight. May cause headache if worn instead of hat. Colors may vary. Batteries not included." (Courtesy of DOS)

[kev7161]

Oh, andyscott, I must disagree with you. Have you ever sat in an office for hours on end with nothing much to do but surf the net? I go crazy when I have an hour between classs (unless I actually have something to do!).

I know bearcanada was being glib, but his advice is sound. This is a lose-win situation. You lose, they win. If the OP is truly interested in this position, then I would suggest some negotiation - - there seems to be a lot of room for it.

[andyscott84]

In my school I am supposed to stay in the grounds during that time. I work in a middle school here and they've asked many times that I stay in the office from 8am - 5pm. Of couse I only stay on grounds for the classes, less than 20 hours a week. So I would assume that it would be the same situation there, as I said I don't know the school so I could be wrong. Also, because this is a small town I make 3,500 a month and that suits me fine as I'm not trying to save money and it easily pays for any decadent behaviour on my part.

Who's to say the ad is a joke? I for one am here to offer advice if it is at all possible. I haven't lost my faith in humanity so far, so I won't jump to the automatic conclusion that everything slightly suspicious must be false. And if it is, what harm is done by offering assistance except for a few wasted minutes of my time typing.

[nolefan]

I'd join the others and say that the offer is below par but certainly not unheard of when short term contracts are in play.
This is a wintercamp so it is normal to have long hours but the pay should be double that.

I'd say to either forget about it or contact them again and say that the offer is below par. If you can get 4000/month at a public university teaching 16-20 periods per week and no office hours, then they should provide at least that.

[Spiderman Too]

Eastern Star's job ad can be viewed here:-

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=10025

The ad reads, in part;

[bearcanada]

And dirtguy, for my part I will assume that you are a nice guy who just likes having a bit of fun at other peoples' expense.


Disclaimer:
"Do not eat. Not for use by children under 3. Do not leave in direct sunlight. May cause headache if worn instead of hat. Colors may vary. Batteries not included." (Courtesy of DOS)

[DirtGuy]

Hello everyone and thank you for all the information. The director is supposed to call me tonight and I will now have something to talk with him about.

I read the contract again (it's 5 pages long and bit hard to understand) and it says I am supposed to work "up to and including 80 class hours per month." It also has several paragraphs detailing everything else I am supposed to do such as office work, dinners with the community, meeting with students one-on-one, "other extra-curricular activities", etc. None of these seem to be things for which I will get paid.

I have been contacting some other schools and several replies in my inbox with attachments including something from an Aston school. Either Eastern Star gets real or it looks like I have some other choices.

bearcanada: I am at a loss to understand why you think this is posting is a joke! We are having an extremely rare hot and dry spell (global warming?) and I'm working 7 days a week to clear up my backlog. I have neither the time nor the desire to waste anyone's time on this board

Thanks again everyone.

DirtGuy

[andyscott84]

Good luck with all that, mate.

[bearcanada]

Dirtguy, I really don't want to prolong this but your story is changing quickly now that you received some flak.

You are now telling us that the contract specifies 80 hours PER MONTH, which is representative. But you began by telling us that the contract specified between 80 and 90 hours PER WEEK, plus on-call time beyond that. And so on.

And yes, your post was a joke; just a standard bit of flame bait to see if you could roust everyone. But I think if we were to see the contract actually offered to you, it would be pretty much standard and without all the nonsense in your first post.

As an aside, I'm intrigued by your personal information. You say you work in the US, but cannot work in the "rainy season". I didn't know the US had a rainy season. Is that like monsoons where people get washed out to sea? Where exactly are you, that you have a rainy season when you can't work?

It's also nice to know you earn so much in your job that you don't need any money. That pretty much eliminates teaching school and working at McDonald's. I'm curious. What kind of work do you do?

I have a suggestion. Why don't you forward the email contract you received, so that we can see for ourselves the parts that specify 6 and 7 days per week, 80 to 90 hours per WEEK of teaching work, plus additional on-call time, for 3,200 RMB per MONTH, minus 500 RMB? I especially want to see the part that specifies your presence from 7:30 AM to 8:30 PM EVERY DAY.

I know you are really busy right now, what with the "dry season" and all, but forwarding an email only takes 5 seconds. And then no one will think your post was a joke. That's fair, isn't it? But you can't retype it - you have to forward the original email, headers and all. Deal? No, I didn't think so.


Disclaimer:
"Do not eat. Not for use by children under 3. Do not leave in direct sunlight. May cause headache if worn instead of hat. Colors may vary. Batteries not included." (Courtesy of DOS)

[DirtGuy]

OK, bearcanada, I would be happy to oblige your request. It seems that the first contract I got from China is so far out in left field that no-one believes it. If you (or anyone else) will give me instructions in how to attach something to a post, I will happily do so. Please make the instructions really clear as I am not the most computer literate person around. I use a Mac running OS 10.3 if that makes any difference. The contract is sitting on my hard drive and I believe it is a Word document.

I have no idea where you come up with 80 hours a week. Nothing I ever said. The rest of the stuff I listed in clearly spelled out in the contract.

As far as my work goes, no problem: I live and work in Silicon Valley as a landscape contractor and December through February we really do get rain. This precludes doing a lot of outside work in the mud. Business is absolutely fantastic and growing about 20% a year. There is an unbelievable amount of money floating around this area and people routinely spend anywhere from $20K to $250K (sometimes much more) on their yards. I never bid jobs and refuse to work within a budget. If clients will not work on a completely open-ended basis, I politely refuse the job and move onto the next one. You probably think this is a joke also but I assure you I am completely serious. It's really hard to describe what living here is like unless you have actually done it. It wasn't always this way but I am at a point where I can do absolutely nothing for 3 months and not worry about having enough money.

At night I sub for ESL teachers in a couple of local adult ed. districts. The pay ranges from $26-32 per hour depending on the district. I do not know what pay scale you are used to, but this is abysmal given the cost of living in this area. I do it strictly for fun.

I thought about going to China as I heard they have short-term programs in the winter and I want to see the country. Just my luck to hook up with this place. I have just received a couple of other contracts and they are for around 5000 RMB per month including housing. Both have shorter work hours. I would really like to work in Taiwan as I have many friends there but this type of program just doesn't seem to exist.

So that's my story. Once again, I am more than happy to attach the contract if someone will just tell me how. Then everyone can read it and have a good laugh.

DirtGuy