| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: speech contest |
 |
|
1. What do you do when a student asks you to help them?
2. Anyone care to see a speech?
Please forgive me for not going first this time, too knackered.
Thanks in advance.
Enjoy,
s |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| In response to your first question I usually make suggestions on their grammar or the logical ordering of their speech. I don't think it is fair to re-write any of their speech for them. I also get them to read it for me and make any necessary corrections to their pronunciation and rhythm of speech. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thank you Ali, appreciate that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't think it is a good idea to help them too much, but certainly what Ali suggests is good advice. I also suggest the students have good visual material to use, either handouts (for more formal speeches/presentations) or OHPs for just outlining main points and demonstrating and reinforcing said points. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Find out the parameters of the speech contest and go over them with the students. I have judged about 8 contests in Japan and coached many as well. I have never seen handouts given and also make sure gestures are kept to a minimum. When gestures are overdone, it is the kiss of death. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for those very excellent posts you guys.
Enjoy,
s |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
My experience with English speech contests in Japan. Either:
1) the students grab some speech out of a book and memorize it.
or
2) the students write their own speech and then the JTE asks the ALT to re-write it.
What really bites about 2 is that even if the ALT were to refuse to rewrite a given student's speech, the contestants from other schools would have had speeches rewritten by their ALTs. So the kid with the unrewritten speech would be left out - making them, their school and their ALT look bad! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ripslyme wrote: |
What really bites about 2 is that even if the ALT were to refuse to rewrite a given student's speech, the contestants from other schools would have had speeches rewritten by their ALTs. So the kid with the unrewritten speech would be left out - making them, their school and their ALT look bad! |
I wouldn't rewrite it, I would concentrate on delivery. If the student doesn't understand all the words in your rewrite and can't pronounce them then they will sound bad at the speech contest. Clear speech is usually considered far more important than nuanced language. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ripslyme wrote: |
My experience with English speech contests in Japan. Either:
1) the students grab some speech out of a book and memorize it.
or
2) the students write their own speech and then the JTE asks the ALT to re-write it.
What really bites about 2 is that even if the ALT were to refuse to rewrite a given student's speech, the contestants from other schools would have had speeches rewritten by their ALTs. So the kid with the unrewritten speech would be left out - making them, their school and their ALT look bad! |
Okay, given that -- I have a question for you... Next week I happen to be on the judging panel for such a speech contest. What advice would YOU give ME so as to maximize the fairness of the contest and to help ensure that the best contestant wins?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| ripslyme wrote: |
My experience with English speech contests in Japan. Either:
1) the students grab some speech out of a book and memorize it.
or
2) the students write their own speech and then the JTE asks the ALT to re-write it.
What really bites about 2 is that even if the ALT were to refuse to rewrite a given student's speech, the contestants from other schools would have had speeches rewritten by their ALTs. So the kid with the unrewritten speech would be left out - making them, their school and their ALT look bad! |
Okay, given that -- I have a question for you... Next week I happen to be on the judging panel for such a speech contest. What advice would YOU give ME so as to maximize the fairness of the contest and to help ensure that the best contestant wins?
|
Speaking for myself, ultimately I have to judge what is presented - at face value. If it's a speech genuinely written by a student or a speech rewritten by a native speaker, I make no assumptions. I gotta judge what I see and hear.
I suppose that's a see-no-evil kind of approach, but it's either that or use some sort of double standard for speeches that I assume were rewritten by an ALT. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, that's exactly it. But such double-standards DO exist. Whether it's fair or not -- I'm not sure. But it's the same kind of thing that happens at science fairs back home. When I was a kid, doing science fair projects was a lot of fun -- and I know for a fact that the judges places at least a fair bit of emphasis on whether or not most of the work was done by the students, and to what extent their parents (or other teachers) helped them and did the work for them. Some projects looked so good, you KNEW that the student probably only did about 25% of it and the rest was put together by mom or dad. Conversely, those students rarely (if ever) won from my experience... But maybe that's only where I come from -- maybe elsewhere it was the other way around.
I guess the next logical question is -- SHOULD such a double-standard exist? And if so, what are the criteria?
(I'm getting vivid images in my head of Ralph Wiggum as Idaho and Lisa Simpson as Florida)....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jim, this is what I do and I have judged at both jr. high and uni levels. I know this isn't fair, but I judge and try to guess somewhat on whether I believe the student actually wrote it or not. Is it coming from them or someone else? Sometimes they write about things they couldn't have known about or expressed. A vast majority I have seen are written by teachers. I know I am wrong sometimes, but I bet I am right more often. I hate it when students cheat and get someone else to write the speech. It is a judgement call, but then there is more than one judge. Everyone has their own criteria.
Now content is one part, delivery is another and then they are on their own. No help is possible here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gordon wrote: |
Now content is one part, delivery is another and then they are on their own. No help is possible here. |
Yes, delivery is one of those "You can lead a horse to water...." type scenarios. I've coached students who were preparing for speech contests AND recitation contests. The one year I was heavily involved with it, I worked with (and personally coached) 9 students. Of these nine, 7 placed in the top three in their respective categories and one of my first place winners went on to win second place in the prefecture-wide competition.
What separated the ones who scored (and placed) with top marks and the two who didn't even place?
1. Dedication. When we had after-school practice, the ones who actually bothered to show up regularly instead of going to their regular club activity or doing other things scored a lot better.
2. Took my advice. The ones who did EXACTLY as I told them. I gave them very specific instructions on posture, eye contact, intonation, expression, pace, and proper pronounciation of certain vowels and consonants. For example, I spent a fair amount of time polishing "l" vs." r" and "v (instead of "boo-ee") and "c" (instead of "she")... My techniques are usually very effective, so MOST of them were able to do these things well after I taught them BUT....
3. The ones who practiced at home what I taught them were able to improve consitently week after week. Those students I was able to polish their delivery more and more and it got better and better. Those kids who didn't practice, I had to re-teach them the same things over and over, thus wasting time when they should have been working on other aspects of their speeches.
I had one student who was in a speech contest, whose speech was written entirely by the JTE. The only thing that made it ANYWHERE near legit was the fact that the speech was BASED on an actual speech the students had written and delivered in Japanese previously. Apparently it was a "translation" of the student's original speech, but the teacher did all the translating. Unfortunately, it was so rife with grammatical and structural errors, that when it was shown to me to correct, it was covered with more red ink than the actual speech itself. (At this point, I hadn't yet been told that I was actually correcting something the JTE had written and not the student -- OOPS!) The next problem was that the JTE was ALSO trying to coach the student, and thought it best to impart his own advice and knowledge which ran contrary to mine. So who does the student listen to? Yup, you guessed it -- the JTE. Needless to say, that student scored one of the lowest marks in the entire competition... Oh well. You can lead a horse to water... right?
In any event, this will be my first time JUDGING such an event rather than coaching students to prepare for it. Even though I've been given guidelines on which aspects I should be judging, I haven't yet devised a rubric for it -- and I hope I can have something concrete before the competition. Judged events, whether it's a beauty or talent competition, or a science fair or figure skating, are inevitably biased and no one likes it when a decision is made on an apparent "whim" of a judge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
I remember at this one speech contest, they had a score card with the following criteria to be judged:
Volume
Pronunciation
Rhythm
Intonation
Posture
Facial Expression
Memorization
Each category was worth 1 to 5 points, 35 points max. total. So in this case, they didn't even judge the content or mechanics of the speech, only the delivery. Which I guess is fair enough seeing as one doesn't really know the true authors of any of these speeches.
(Maybe they should have called it a Speaking Contest instead.... ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ripslyme wrote: |
I remember at this one speech contest, they had a score card with the following criteria to be judged:
Volume
Pronunciation
Rhythm
Intonation
Posture
Facial Expression
Memorization
Each category was worth 1 to 5 points, 35 points max. total. So in this case, they didn't even judge the content or mechanics of the speech, only the delivery. Which I guess is fair enough seeing as one doesn't really know the true authors of any of these speeches.
(Maybe they should have called it a Speaking Contest instead.... ) |
Yes, I agree that the majority of the time it is the delivery that is being judged and I think that is a fair system. Make sure your students are looking at the audience, don't mumble and have clear pronunciation. Even if their content is not amazing it will always sound better and probably score better if whatever content they have can be heard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
