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[Travel Zen]

Hi.

I'm doing an Asian tour starting in India and ending up in the Motherland. I LOVE Russia and all of its history, but I know Russia only from books and documentaries....maybe 2nd hand knowledge from friends.

Can you tell me how dangerous it would be for me, an African/Canadian foreigner nowadays with the terrorism and upsurge in Nazi skinheads? (this is what I hear)

I wish to go to Moscow/St.Petersburg and Volgograd. I was thinking of getting a Tourist Guide to go with me ($) but why spend the extra money if I can go it alone.

I need your advise.

[BaltikaTroika]

There is definitely a problem in Russia with violence towards visible minorities. Furthermore, if anything does happen, the police will often assume that you caused the situation because, as they told some Nigerian students at my university, "you should have known better than to come here. You know that racism is a problem in this country."

Of course, you will see people of African descent in larger cities of Russia. Even in smaller cities of nearly half a million people people will stare (some in Arkhangelsk even stopped their cars in the street for a good look)!

It would be best to avoid walking the streets at night, as well as avoiding bars (drunken Russians often have odd ways of showing how macho they are). It's best to walk with friends, or at the least, just with anybody else. Seeing as you're doing an "Asian tour", I have a feeling you'll be alone...

I'd love to say that the people there are open minded and really wouldn't care, as the case is here at home (I'm a Canadian, too), but it's just not true. There are problems with skinheads all over the place there, and there really is no deterrent. They will beat foreigners, knowing that they probably won't be caught, and even if they are, they really don't seem to care. Aside from the skinhead problem, the average macho drunk Russian guy will often try to start something with you, just to look better to his friends.

From experience, I should mention that you would not really enjoy visiting a Russian hospital.

Having said all of that (phew!), Russia really is a wonderful place... it's an adventure living there! If you love culture, you'll enjoy the theatres and museums. As long as you take far more care than you would, say, in Toronto, you'll have a good time. Just be responsible (avoid bars, walking at night, don't walk alone) and basically follow common sense.

Oh, about terrorism... it's not something you should worry about. It's a worldwide problem, not just in Russia. If you're (un)lucky enough to be one of the few that suffers from a terrorist attack in Moscow, a city of around 10 million, you've probably already been hit by lightning a few times, too.

Dave

[expatella_girl]

I would agree completely with Troika. He is right on.

But I would add an even stronger admonition about the racism. It's really terrible. I would consider Moscow dangerous if I were you. Russians take a dim view of any kind of minority and society seems to complacently accept attacks on dark skinned dark eyed people. If you were to be accosted it is likely that no one would come to your aid, even in a busy crowded area. For non-whites, this is probably not a pleasant place to visit. I'm from the American south where racism is still very much alive and well, and I can say it is 10 times worse here.

Not wanting to dampen your dream or appear negative, but if I were you I would skip Russia and find a friendlier more tolerant place to visit. Really.

[Travel Zen]

So sad.

[expatella_girl]

Gosh, I just hate to keep raining on your parade, but I would not advise you to come here alone. I've seen only a few African (don't know what the politically correct term is any more. You can call me whitey , I don't mind) persons here, and maybe just a few travelling alone. It really really cannot be recommended. And even at the risk of bringing down the wrath of the all-knowing Communist Smurf, I would tell you to not come to Russia. It sounds so unfriendly. But the Russians certainly can be.

Where did this racism come from? I don't know. I do know that there is no guarantee of civil rights regarding the equality of people regardless of race, religion, sex, or nationality. And the police will not protect you. Quite the opposite.

Yes, Russians have an attitude of superiority and a history of xenophobia. They suspect all dark skinned people. Hell, they don't even like asians and half of their country IS IN ASIA. They particularly hate gypsies. Vehemently. And Chechen looking brown people. They also dislike Uzbezks, and Tajihks, and anybody who is not lilly-white. This would NOT be a safe place for you. Sorry.

[BaltikaTroika]

Travel Zen, if you'd like to get some advice from one of my Nigerian friends (up in Arkhangelsk) about his firsthand experience with racism, PM me and I'll send him your email address. I've seen him in conflicts firsthand with not only skinheads, but with average drunk Joe Russian.

Now, from what I've heard, racism (at least the skinhead type) wasn't really on the surface during Soviet times. They tried their best to show off how equal everybody was.

But now... well, as you know, times are tough. There's no centralized power that can ensure the safety of any given group. It's my theory (argue if you will, won't change my mind) that skinheads are basically unemployed, bored, not-incredibly-bright people who have absolutely no hope for the future and find conflicts with anybody they can because that will give them something to live for. You can send this definition to the people at Websters, if you'd like. Let's face it, people of African or Caribbean descent are different - they look different, talk differently (sometimes) and culturally, they're very unlike anybody else. It doesn't take much of an open mind to say, "Hey, that's cool, I'd like to meet this person and know more about them." Unfortunately, when you live in a country that doesn't really have much experience with "different" people (probably thanks to the Cold War and the historical tendency to forcefully relocate any "undesireable" minorities to some place out in Siberia), you just don't run across many truly open minds.

It's far easier to hate blindly than to have an open mind, as unfortunate as that sounds. At least hate seems to answer questions. Why is the economy bad? Because of foreigners, that's why! Why don't I have any money? Foreigners! Terrorism? Foreigners! No car? Foreigners! Filip Kirkorov? Foreigner!

I do stand by my comments that Russia is a wonderful place. When times get better, peopel will be less scared of outsiders. As we're speaking about the minority here (the violent people) who could cause problems for you, I'd like to mention that the majority are, as in any country, good people. I've got tons of Russian friends. My wife is Russian. One of my African friends came to our wedding in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere in northern Russia and people were curious, not afraid... There were dozens of people who wanted their picture taken with a "real live African"!! Of course, I am sure that if we had gone to a bar at night, there would have been either a fight or the threat of one. And if something truly horrible did happen (resulting in death), the police would probably forget about in no time...

Dave

[arodeorowdy]

I too really love Russia, it's people, language, culture and food. I've spent 10 months there and traveled from east to west thru 23 cities solo. So many people opened their homes to me and fed me even though they themselves have little. I only had 3 cases were I started to be concerned about my safety when I ran into a group of drunk guys. I'm a very tall White American, but I know if I was Black I would've most certainly had problems. If they knew I was a foreigner then I also believe I would've had problems. Why? Because foreigners are perceived to have money and it's someone to aim their frustrations at.

During Soviet times the government controlled everything. Not so now, so of course their is less protection for the minorities. Same thing in the Red Army vs. the Russian Army.

So, if your going to go anyway I would suggest like the others, don't go walking alone at night and always try to be with friends.

Cheers, Rowdy

[travellingscot]

I am surprised that a teacher ( Or perhaps anybody who has travelled around and mixed with different types of people) should be asking "What is the cause of this hatred ?". Surely we have all come across hatred in many forms,usually against those who are different from "Us" ,whether because of weight,religion,nationality(USA now the current target),or other. Colour is probably the most obvious difference,and i'm sure that only the existence of a police force in many countries actually prevents more attacks.
I would think that in many parts of USA and certainly in Western Europe, many people do not attack "Non-whites" only because of a fear of being caught.Certainly in UK the current PC attitudes have caused many people to increase their dislike of minorities,and has led to many Brits actually leaving the country because of "A lack of freedom" coupled with "Too many immigrants"- these are views expressed in surveys and on expat sites i have viewed.
I am not saying that i agree with those attitudes,but from what others have said,i think it is the fact that the police in Russia turn a blind eye which leads to the attacks,and the hatred is just a part of life which is present in many people but supressed in most cases. It is not only brainless skinheads who hate,but they are the most obvious-i have spoken to people from all sorts of backgrounds who share the same views and only keep it bottled up because of their job or to avoid an argument.
Perhaps this would be a good topic on a general board if it hasn't been done already ?

[bobs12]

Sorry if I'm repeating a point I've missed somewhere in the exchange already.

Russia is more dangerous for foreigners than for Russians. That much is certain. Foreigners get lost, stand out, etc. and then there's the xenophobic element that can make it difficult to get help when you need it. For racial minorities who stand out a lot more clearly, the risks are naturally much higher.

Not everyone in Russia hates foreigners, and not everyone is a racist. I'm afraid that I think blacks and Asians might have a harder time getting help when they need it, and a much higher risk of being targeted by petty criminals and skinheads alike.

Most racist attacks are (apparently) aimed at students and immigrants, not at tourists. Correct me if I'm wrong there. The point about a young drunk earning kudos could apply just as well in almost any city in the world, but is no less valid for that.

I think you'd be okay in Moscow and Saint Petersburg if you stick to the central areas, but don't go to Volgograd. I'm a six-foot Scotsman that sometimes has a hard time persuading people I'm not Russian, but when I was in Volgograd with my friends who were previous residents of the city, they wouldn't let me out of their sight. They didn't even trust some of their friends with me.

[Travel Zen]

I want to thank you all for your honest reply!

I had no idea it was that bad. Travel books don't tell you and some friends are to shy/embarrased to say how is like. Thanks again.

It's a damn shame. I do love what the Russians have done as a people in history, their culture et all, but if I'm going to be the target of frustration for them, then I'd rather not go there and come away hating them in the end.

I'm going to guess that the Ukraine and Poland have their own problems?

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I lived in Ukraine for two years and traveled to Russia more than once. I am also mixed race. While I experienced a couple of unpleasant experiences while there, I honestly believe neither of them were because I was darker than anyone else. One might hear words and get some looks, but where doesn't that happen? I live in India now and I get stared at constantly.
Long and short of it, if you want to go to the CIS, don't let the color of your skin stop you.
Besides, the women ADORE darker-skinned men (if that sort of thing matters to you).
Cheers.

[expatella_girl]

[bobs12]

Well, it's a difficult question to answer. What people like TZ need (by that I don't mean minorities- I mean people wanting to travel in general) is objective information on which to base their own decisions.

I'm not saying that anyone should or shouldn't come to Russia because of his skin colour, but he should be aware that there are heightened risks involved.

About women and black guys- well, actually that's true to some extent. But let's not make sweeping generalisations. Russia is a faddy country (oops, there's a generalisation) and sexual orientation is becoming a 'trendy' way to show your individuality. Think Tatu, etc. Pick up some girly magazines and you'll soon find a few examples of the kind of soft porn prose that begins with 'I never knew I had a fetish for black men until...'

Ahem, not that I go picking up girly magazines. You occasionally see it on the cover.

At one point a foreign boyfriend was a status symbol. Now Russia is crawling with foreign men, and the cool factor has been doused. Black men are rare. Exotic is cool. Russians like to point and stare. Girls like to be seen and envied. Make your own conclusions.

I really don't think that makes it any safer.


As with all these things, it's best to take everybody's advice with a pinch of salt. Russia is one of those places where foreigner visitors seem overly keen to pronounce themselves experts unduly quickly. While internet forums are great places to find helpful advice, think about who's telling you what and why. They're great places to show off the fact that you once walked home through Gorkii park without being mugged. Take my advice with a dash of pepper too.

Russia is big enough for one person to live for years without a whiff of trouble, and for another to be abducted by a heroin addict posing as a taxi driver right outside the airport and never be seen again.

The dangers to foreigners are enough for the Russian authorities to issue warnings and safety advice to foreign students (it usually takes nothing short of a neutron bomb to get the Russian authorities to issue anything other than fines).

I read somewhere that it was recommended that they arm themselves with airguns to defend themselves against skinhead attacks [reader's letter st. petersburg times, December 14. Treat SPtimes readers' letters with the same scepticism as forum participants].

[Travel Zen]

Expatella- Thanks for your insight. I believe you are thinking about my safety, and that's very nice of you.

I've also heard many stories in the news about foreigners being attacked. It's a real threat, but I MUST go. This trip that I'm on is an obsession, so if its not Russia, it will be the Ukraine or Poland, maybe all. Just with the abnormal precautions of an escort and maybe brass knuckles and pepper spray (Kalishnikovs' for sale?)

As for the girls jp2001, even in Canada, I've noticed how open and friendy Russian women were to me, and I've dated many nice personalities. In Russia, who knows.

So bobs12, with a grain of very bitter salt, Russia will be the most dangerous of countries to visit, in August, so wish me luck.

I'd still like to hear anyones' honest opinion of it. The more, the better.

[jpvanderwerf2001]